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what would joe rauh do?
by nbutter on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 01:36:30 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
The weak in courage is strong in cunning-William Blake
by beltane on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 01:43:21 PM PDT
the Hit Diaries on Senator Clinton that are being recommended on a daily basis, right here.
by roadhaus on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 01:46:52 PM PDT
Or that she had Vince Foster killed?
Oh wait, those kinds of diaries don't get recommended here.
I can't believe I have to say this, but the line separating legitimate criticism from swiftboating is accuracy.
Is John Kerry claiming he was "swiftboated" for his Iraq War vote? Of course not. He's not calling out Hillary Clinton either. But people are spreading lies that Obama is a Muslim, and he wants people to know the truth.
Seek first and final principles at The Mean Free Path.
by Cream Puff on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 01:57:27 PM PDT
Daily Kos used to be worthwhile.
by andgarden on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 01:58:57 PM PDT
quit your lyin', while you still have a chance
Obesa cantavit
by wystler on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:05:16 PM PDT
There were several in the last week.
by andgarden on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:05:50 PM PDT
Please provide the links.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
by Viceroy on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:13:04 PM PDT
here
Some have been deleted, but there are still others, if you have your eyes half open.
by andgarden on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:17:29 PM PDT
Sorry, but you're going to have to do a lot better than linking to a diary with no lies. Hyperbole is a bit different. And, when was that diary on the rec list??
Please try again - your credibility is at issue now.
by Viceroy on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:21:02 PM PDT
list. He'll Adam B even intentionally brought up Monicagate last week.
by andgarden on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:22:35 PM PDT
I've asked you for links politely - let's make this more explicit. Please provide a link to a recommended diary that contains lies. Not hyperbole - lies. Not a non-recc'd diary; a recc'd diary. And please detail the "lies" explicitly.
If there have been so many, why don't you actually respond and back up your words?
by Viceroy on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:27:21 PM PDT
you're a patient one
by wystler on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:51:15 PM PDT
from this week-end. There was a flood of crap.
My favorite was the claim that the Clintons rigged the NH poll, which brought on a recount, and Clinton catually gained votes.
by roadhaus on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:52:30 PM PDT
those diaries haven't been deleted.
by Rick Winrod on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:15:50 PM PDT
I don't think. I've been in touch with him about this pretty much every day b/c I want to see more proof and he is getting me whatever he gets himself.
I think this is worth looking into further, and don't see why people would want to hide voter suppression and intimidation, regardless of who is doing it.
Why John W. McCain is an unstable, crazy, angry, clueless, hypocritical, lying, pandering douche.
by clammyc on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 05:35:09 PM PDT
you are the one who is lying
Political Nexus is now at Heading Left, the official home of BlogTalkRadio's progressive lineup
by theKK on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 06:30:25 PM PDT
the NH polls.
You're a stinking liar, and a troll.
Head to Heading Left, BlogTalkRadio's progressive radio site!
by thereisnospoon on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 01:12:59 AM PDT
hmmmm?
There's wasn't a single lie or untruth or rightwing smear in them.
You're just uncomfortable that your little DLC centrists are coming under heavy fire.
It's about time.
by thereisnospoon on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:51:28 AM PDT
http://www.dailykos.com/...
by roadhaus on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:55:57 PM PDT
it linked to several reports of voter irregularity that had supposed Clinton ties. There were no reports that John Kerry didn't deserve a Purple Heart, all the reports showed the opposite- gun holes in the boat, Kerry had no hand in writing the report, etc.... That diary is not a parallel.
If widespread reports came out that Obama or Ron Paul ground troops were somehow trying to jam up opposition GOTV efforts, then it should be posted and it probably would get recommended. Every election has foul play, btw.
by thoreau247365 on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:43:24 PM PDT
The allegations in Nevada are currently the subject, as I understand it, of an official request for an investigation. What happened there is certainly debateable and maybe the diaries were wrong, but that isn't Swiftboating and doesn't really respond to what I asked.
by Viceroy on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:50:42 PM PDT
by roadhaus on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:02:15 PM PDT
Even in the intro it states For all you doubters out there, all I can do is tell you what I directly experienced, and heard firsthand from other volunteers at the campaign office. As further corroboration, the Obama hotline to report irregularities was busy for a full ten minutes The swiftboaters personally claimed to be harmed by Kerry, betrayed.
by thoreau247365 on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:59:27 PM PDT
you haven't been paying attention. No one owes it to you to do the work for you.
by Montague on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 07:16:38 PM PDT
do you know how many friends I did not talk to for along time because I defended Bill. How is put a strain with family because I defended Bill. But now because of Bill's behavior I can't stand to look at him. His lies are disgusting and so is his behavior. I have since called those friends and family and apologized and had to finally admit they were right.
by ronnied on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:41:46 PM PDT
I hope they've developed better things to worry about since then than the affairs of a complete stranger.
For every person who calls his "behavior" "disgusting" I see a person with a skeleton in their closet seeking to divert attention by grandstanding as a moralist.
Spare us, if you can't spare your family.
Intelligent Designer Laments Lapse in Intelligence
by mrblifil on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:47:07 PM PDT
What was disgusting was not cheating on his wife, but dragging the whole Democratic party down with his indiscetions. If he needs to get his dick sucked, couldnt he find a more discreet way of doing it? I mean, an intern in the White House? I couldn't care less if he fucked hundreds of women, I'm not at all a moralist, but do it discreetly. Not with a young girl working for him. Not while he's being sued for sexual harrassment. So as a result our whole country was consumed with the stupid impeachment for 2 years, he alienated lots of voters from the Democratic party and Bush was elected and has wreaked havoc on the country! All because Bill couldn't just jack off. I defended him during the 90s, but now I see the damage his totally irresponsible behavior did.
by mishar on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 04:46:02 PM PDT
with Vitter, Craig, Haggard, and so many others keeping the moral tone in DC, don't you think?
Remember Nataline.
by means are the ends on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 11:27:20 PM PDT
it's the execrable, continual lying.
by thereisnospoon on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:54:51 AM PDT
by means are the ends on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:46:36 PM PDT
the lying and the royalism is.
The "meaning of is is" is.
by thereisnospoon on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:54:13 AM PDT
He's not the first guy to get a hummer from his mistress at the office and certainly won't be the last.
Call me when you ARE truly ready to be Vanguard of the Party
by HGM MA on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 04:09:06 PM PDT
The answer is "no" to both.
More and Better Democrats: Help Build An Obamajority.
by Adam B on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 08:52:27 PM PDT
that's a swiftboat attack? lmao...
by thereisnospoon on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:50:17 AM PDT
by roadhaus on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:49:55 PM PDT
You kids behave or I'm turning this universe around RIGHT NOW! - god
by Clem Yeobright on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:04:05 PM PDT
by theKK on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 06:33:39 PM PDT
by thereisnospoon on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:55:19 AM PDT
You and Other Super Delegate (US Senators, Congress men/women esp women!!) NEEEEED to fan out across California, New York, New Jersey etc to spread Barack's message. Barack NEEDS his super surrogates to fight back at the Clinton machine!! there is simply too much misinformation out there.
Barack NEEEEDS you guys like YOU to FIGHT for him. No matter what anyone on DKos says, you are highly respected and people LISTEN to you. They remember you; you won California!! You guys need to go out and speak out to the Latino voters in California. Barack needs to show Latinos that there are a lot of Super delegates out there supporting him. You guys NEED to get VERY Vocal!!!
Senator Kerry, I think you are one of the most talented and gifted oratorical speakers in this country - I was with you when you were down in Iowa in 2003 and was vindicated when you won (I won $250. shhh don't tell anyone!) - I BELIEVE YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!! You guys (super surrogates) NEED TO BLANKET CALIFORNIA. you guys need to supplement the incredible efforts already underway on the ground in California
I believe Barack can steal a slim victory out there. Please be passionate. Help Barack!! PLEASE!!!!
by rapcetera on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:46:14 PM PDT
misuse of this forum.
Is this about unfair attacks?
Or is this going to become about a politician using this site to galvanize support for only 1 of our 3 candidates?
Senator Kerry, I think you are one of the most talented and gifted oratorical speakers in this country - I was with you when you were down in Iowa in 2003 and was vindicated when you won (I won $250. shhh don't tell anyone!) - I BELIEVE YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!! You guys (super surrogates) NEED TO BLANKET CALIFORNIA. you guys need to supplement the incredible efforts already underway on the ground in California I believe Barack can steal a slim victory out there. Please be passionate. Help Barack!! PLEASE!!!!
I'd ask that the Senator disavow himself from anyone like this person or several others:
Senator Kerry, I thank you for the nonpartisan equal handed campaign against Swiftboating wherever, and whenever it occurs against all Democrats.
As to some responders--we have Clinton and Edwards supporters right here too. This is not Barrack Obama's website.
by santh on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 04:55:06 PM PDT
thank you for your opinion, but I can state my opinions however I want. It's my right. Now move right on along....
by rapcetera on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 05:07:16 PM PDT
Victory" by pushing your candidate.
If you can write, you can read.
Senator Kerry said-- to everyone-- in many ways, that this was about combating Swiftboating specifically anywhere and everywhere.
Since I also read--
I read Kos' remarks-- he says if you don't have a full diary's worth, you really shouldn't do a full diary. You should do comments and engage interactively on this site (this site, that is not Obama's website).
I won't take instructions from you but I will say that if you are making your every thought a diary, you're doing it wrong.
by santh on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 05:22:40 PM PDT
I am still free to state my thoughts though.
by rapcetera on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 05:31:13 PM PDT
I can state my opinions however I want. It's my right. Now move right on along....
No, you cannot, and no, it is not.
This is not your house. Nor is it my house. Hell, it isn't even our house.
It's Mr. Zuniga's house. He has allowed all of us to come here and to speak our piece, within rules that he has laid down. Under those rules, we get to self-police, to a certain extent. So, if member X is being an asshole, we, the rest of the community, get to say "Hey, X, you're being an asshole!" If that doesn't change X's behavior, a smaller subset of the community, the Trusted Users, have additional powers to make X's assholeishness disappear. If that doesn't work, the owner of the house, Mr. Zuniga, can tell X to go away permanently. And guess what?
X goes away.
You have no rights here. You have privileges.
I'd have TR'd your response above, but I didn't, because your initial comment was not trollworthy, and your response to criticism shows that you simply do not understand the nature of the forum you are participating in.
This is not the public square. This is not your house. We are all Markos' guests, albeit guests with wide latitude as to behavior, and we should conduct ourselves accordingly.
Think about it.
--Shannon
PS - Normally, I wouldn't swear in a Senator's diary. But, as a fellow Squid, I doubt he'll mind much. They don't say "he swears like a sailor" for nothing. Fair winds and following seas, LT Kerry. I'm proud to have worn the same uniform as you.
by Leftie Gunner on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 10:06:26 PM PDT
some have sour grapes because I choose to advocate for Obama as Sen. Kerry does, and then cloak their sour grapery in a holier than thou frame - oh you are wrong (french accent), you should not say things in this way, Markos would be ferry ferry mad. puhleez. I say save it, you hear. If Markos and others were mad at my harmless comments, I'd have been Tr'd many times already, but as you can see with the 21 recs my comment has gotten, others think my statement was more positive and not negative or breaking any rules. So thank you for comment....but you get my point....
by rapcetera on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:04:41 AM PDT
It was not your initial comment that I was dealing with. As I said, it was not trolling.
It was your assumption of a right to say whatever you want, however you want, that was, and is, incorrect.
You simply do not have the right that you are asserting, on what amounts to private property.
That you claim to know the rules, and make make statements that are not supported by those same rules, say to me that you are, in fact choosing to ignore those rules because they are inconvenient.
There is no free speech here, except as Markos chooses to allow. You can say what you like, once. If what you say violates the rules of the site, or, for that matter, Markos' personal whim on that day, you get your pee-pee slapped. And if that happens, your rights have not been violated.
It's an important distinction.
by Leftie Gunner on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:28:58 PM PDT
I simply spoke up for Obama. Because Senator Kerry publicly endorsed Barack, I see nothing wrong with encouraging him to do more to support Barack.
by rapcetera on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 05:09:09 PM PDT
A non-troll diary that makes up a complete lie about Hillary Clinton. Not something you think is over-the-top, hateful or unfair. A lie.
I know there have been many harsh criticisms of her, including I believe unfair ones.
But cut it out with the victimhood. Even if she were being smeared, there is no obligation for John Kerry to respond to them. I'm sure Markos would have no trouble with Hillary Clinton or any of her endorsers posting a diary here.
by Cream Puff on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:11:46 PM PDT
by roadhaus on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:57:58 PM PDT
his first hand account is a big lie?
Fuck you. I was there. You were challenged to find a diary from the rec list that contained a lie about HRC. And you can't point to shit.
If you can't find his diaries and think he deleted them, it's because you are a Clinton-come-lately to this site who doesn't know how to use the search function.
Read the FAQ you newb.
by theKK on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 06:41:28 PM PDT
by Larry Bailey on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 06:48:07 PM PDT
who has been banned from this site before. Believe me, I wouldn't have unloaded on him like that if he wasn't. But he won't be here for long...
by theKK on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 01:55:39 PM PDT
history here, I think that your comment is right on the money.
by means are the ends on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 11:34:50 PM PDT
is someone ready to claim those all of a sudden now?
I didn't think so.
Know the Facts about Barack Obama.
by Elise on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 09:49:53 PM PDT
that's a fucking lie.
by thereisnospoon on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:49:27 AM PDT
Puff. Please point me at them that I might bestow some trollnuts of my own.
Please join the Obama Viral Email Project!
by Travis Stark on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:36:58 PM PDT
No link on hand, but I've seen a couple. But like Cream Puff said, they don't get rec'd.
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
by kyril on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 11:44:42 PM PDT
Where the vast preponderance of "swift boat" style politics are coming from these days. I'm sure that once we get into the general the republicans will be as disgusting as ever, but right now the Clinton family seems to have a monopoly on swift boat attacks. Tom Daschle was brave enough to say it and call out the former president.
Senator Kerry, will you follow the former majority leader's lead and speak strongly in favor of honesty, forthrightness, and your (our) candidate in this election?
You can chain me, torture me, you can even destroy this body, but you will never imprison my mind. -Gandhi
by New England Liberal Elitist on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 08:28:01 PM PDT
then get used to diarys calling them out on it.
Why do you support the swiftboating?
Do you think George Stephanopoulos loves America as much as you?
by MadAsHellMaddie on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 01:58:16 PM PDT
But until Senators and Governors and Party Leaders and other VIP's actually grow an actual spine, loudly and assertively purging these toxins from the system, once and for all, we will have accomplished nothing.
If you want to turn the page, Senator, then don't couch these words in half-hearted jabs at the "right-wingers" when we all know who the two blue elephants in the room are.
It's clear to all who the real right-winger, Rovian/Lee Atwaterian, win-at-all-costs-by-saying-anthing dynamic duo is.
We get it. You get it. The media gets it. But everybody seems to be cowering. Do we dare? Do we dare take on the Big Dawg himself?
They are a poison to this party. It is becoming clear to many here and even --- somehow!!-- in the mainstream media.
Sometimes to save a party, to save the nascent progressive revolution, you need to bring out the (metaphorical) long knives and do what needs to be done -- a good old-fashioned purge.
If not now, when?
by Aquaman on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:06:54 AM PDT
how about eyewitness reports of voter suppression?
Now, if you have eyewitness reports of Vince Foster's "murder"...
oops. I hope the gate wasn't too expensive.
My blog. Come visit.
by hekebolos on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:20:48 PM PDT
the criticism of the Clintons is entirely legit. They've done it to themselves.
by thereisnospoon on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:49:06 AM PDT
was a big reason for me becoming active in politics. That was the end-all for me, I had seen enough and now I'll do anything I can to put a Democrat in the White House and rid as many Wingnuts as possible from Congress.
Our Work Is Not Done, People!
by Jeff Y on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:51:43 PM PDT
The Swift Boat
by matchpoint on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 08:48:49 PM PDT
The way Kerry is misunderstood and maligned truly makes me weep.
by NYFM on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:04:42 PM PDT
elected to task.
by miller415 on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 06:49:35 PM PDT
wide narrow
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