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I am not interested in bashing other candidatees. I offered the reason I have made the decision explained in this diary. If that speaks to you, fine. And if not, I am not interested in arguments.
I will participate in civil discussions on this thread. I will read what you choose to post.
If this meets your favor, I would appreciate any indication thereof you might choose to leave.
Peace.
Those who can, do. Those who can do more, TEACH! If impeachment is off the table, so is democracy
by teacherken on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:07:06 AM PDT
j/k. I agree with you whole-heartedly.
Come see TV from the reality-based community at RealityBasedTV.com
by MarkInSanFran on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:13:21 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
I am the decider.
As teacherken is for his. And you are for yours. And every other voter is for her or his.
"Do not lie and do not do what you hate." (Gospel of Thomas) - quoted by Tom Foxps. MD=Maryland
by KJC MD on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:18:51 AM PDT
That's what the j/k means.
by geordie on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 05:18:11 AM PDT
or ESS machine, you might be the decider.
"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid." -- Dwight D. Eisenhower in a letter to his brother Edgar, November 8, 1954
by LostInTexas on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 06:11:39 AM PDT
new ballot readers.
The ballot readers have a counter on the left side. Read the counter BEFORE and AFTER inserting your ballot to see that your ballot is counted.
by SingleVoter on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 08:07:29 AM PDT
if it appears that your vote was not counted?
"We *can* go back to the Dark Ages! The crust of learning and good manners and tolerance is so thin!" -- Sinclair Lewis
by Nespolo on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 09:23:23 AM PDT
the number of pieces of paper fed into it? I suspect that counter protects your vote like those little radiation badges protect people from zoomies. "I just put your badge in the reader ... you're f-cked."
John McCain: He's not just crazy ... He's BATSHIT CRAZY!
by kbman on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 09:54:54 AM PDT
counts. Apparently you can scan whatever ballots you want, but unless you do a statistically significant and random hand count, changing the result on an optical scanner is as easy as changing the result on an electronic machine. And ballots can still be stuffed anyway. What they need is optical ballots with a some distinguishable mark (unique precinct stamp, thumbprint of poll worker - whatever...) that can prove the ballot came from the precinct.
Anyway optical counters are stupid when you could just have a public hand count of the ballots when the polls close like they do in Canada. It's even faster, open to the public, and way harder to cheat.
"We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek." ~ Barack Obama
by Reality Bites Back on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 10:29:06 AM PDT
But can that be privatized and contracted to GOP-friendly corporations? After all, that is The [new] American Way.
by kbman on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 10:40:54 AM PDT
having people mark a paper ballot by hand. They put it in a simple box. Before voting, the box can be inspected by the public and shown to be empty, then the lid is closed and locked. At the end of voting, anyone who wants can gather around and the box is unlocked and the ballots hand counted by the poll workers as the public watches - and feel free to bring your video cameras. Each ballot can be verified by at least 2 people to ensure it is accurately recorded. When that is completed, you add up the votes and there is your verified, public, open, accurate count. In large precincts, there can be several boxes and multiple counting tables, all completely observable by the public.
Nothing is hidden, and it somehow takes less time than it does here, especially as there is no question as to the secret machine code, machines registering negative vote totals, and machines staying over at people's houses the week before the election. Not to mention what happens to the votes when they get transmitted to tabulators.
by Reality Bites Back on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 11:00:15 AM PDT
I was being facetious. Like saying, "but how can the Republicans steal office if we do something like you propose?" I was making your point from another [sarcastic] direction.
by kbman on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 11:05:32 AM PDT
/snark
Good point though - there would literally have to be an effort to avoid having even that process privatized by GOP cronies claiming it would be more "cost effective" somehow to have corporations with trade-secret protected proprietary hand vote counting technology hand count the ballots...
by Reality Bites Back on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 11:45:16 AM PDT
so i figured i'd beat the rush of folks coming out on the 29th to vote for edwards like i did. the last debate left me with no doubt who i feel will fight for WE the people, and ME the person. hrc has been scratched off of any possibility of ever getting my vote, even for dogcatcher. i've known for years about her position on wal-marts board and to me anyone, ANYONE who has EVER worked for wal-mart in the capacity of an attorney, in particular- well i'll put it this way, no lawyer having sat on wal-marts board can NEVER sit here and tell me now that they give a fuck about the little guy. wal-mart has never been about the little guy, so it is in direct opposition to all of this "concern" she claims to have now. she needs to take her billy and go the fuck home...
impeach-it does the body good impeachment-it isn't just for blow jobs anymore impeachment-i can say no more i expect no less
by playtonjr on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 04:41:47 PM PDT
When HRC was on the Wal-Mart board, Sam Walton was a proponent of "Buy USA". Almost everything that was in Wal-Mart at the time was made in the USA. It was when Sam died that the kids went to China for the crap Wal-Mart sells now. Looking to expand their wealth that Sam worked for all his life. He wasn't the greatest boss mind you, but it was a "Buy America' thing.
She has a tongue that could clip a hedge
by TX Scotia on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 05:04:45 PM PDT
and I live, we DO vote on Diebold machines - with no paper trail. That is supposed to be changing, but not in time for the November election. And we have a Democrat to blame for buying them, too.
by Lujane on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 08:38:29 AM PDT
Teacherken lives in Virginia, as he stated at the beginning. For some reason I thought he lived here - maybe this is where he teaches?
by Lujane on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 08:40:01 AM PDT
live in Arlington VA
by teacherken on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 11:13:38 AM PDT
That takes real dedication - of course your dedication and passion have shown through in your diaries. I used to live in Greenbelt and teach in Landover, but didn't have the classroom management skills to be effective with the students I had. I admire those who are successful at it - we need more of you.
by Lujane on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 07:30:47 PM PDT
if I am not dropping my wife off on Capitol Hill where she works, I have a 25 mile drive, and do not hit my first light until I am less than 1/2 mile to school, then have only a total of two lights.
Going home it is 4 lights, but on two of them I can sometimes get away with a right turn on red depending upon traffic. It is not bad. There are teachers who live in Maryland who have longer (mileage and/or time - mine takes about 35 minutes most days) commutes than do I.
by teacherken on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 07:36:32 PM PDT
Absentee ballots leave a paper trail and while the optical scanners that read them can be tampered with, the ballots themselves can hand counted in a challenge situation.
by Flint on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 09:43:15 AM PDT
because I am an election judge, but sometimes I wonder if the absentee ballots are actually counted.
by Lujane on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 07:32:36 PM PDT
Colorado just banned those machines.
Six other states banned them because they were proven to be flipping votes.
The Republican primary in SC just had tremendous problems with them.
So what machines are going to be used in the Dem primary on Saturday? The same machines of course!
I really can't stand the bickering between Hillary's and Obama's campaigns, but to use these machines is just going to be an invitation to all out war between them no matter who wins.
by Flint on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 08:53:02 PM PDT
who has come out for a ban on DRE voting machines is Edwards. Elizabeth said she'd make it one of her top three priorities to rid the country of black box voting. I don't know about you, but we sure as hell need more than just a paper trail.
I'm over here: Visit us at EENR Blog
by sarahlane on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 09:19:39 AM PDT
This is one of the strongest reasons that I support Edwards and will continue to do so.
Edwards has lead where others follow and he not only has said what he will do on the issues in a comprehensive form, but stated how he will accomplish his plans, how he will fund them, and unlike most politicians... he put it in writing.
The Plan to build One America http://www.johnedwards.com/...
by Flint on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 09:48:37 AM PDT
... international absentee votes in Ohio in 2004, so even voting on paper is no guarantee. Thank god we have an honest Secretary of State this time, may she watch over her shoulder.
Pssst ... the Midnight Oil is burning ... drop by sometime. Pass it on
by BruceMcF on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 10:51:33 AM PDT
We just moved out to Delaware county and we're hoping its better here.
What a change from the NYC "pull the lever" machines. There was something so comforting about them.
by jm taylor on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:15:03 PM PDT
I just looked between my legs...lol
"Time is for careful people, not passionate ones"
by roseeriter on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:01:01 AM PDT
And what was s/he doing?
The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. - John Adams
by Malacandra on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:31:06 AM PDT
"If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillary of course:-)
by roseeriter on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:37:27 AM PDT
Identity politics. I hear you.
Of course, if I voted for the candidate who most resembled my East Coast middle-class Jewish demographic, I'd have been obliged to throw my lot in with Joe Lieberman last time 'round.
Something else prevailed upon me to support a different agenda!
by Malacandra on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:52:32 AM PDT
I might agree with the message but not the method.
by roseeriter on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:57:52 AM PDT
is our current gov
by need pr on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 04:22:02 AM PDT
by roseeriter on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 04:29:38 AM PDT
...and in this case it is completely justified. As a matter of fact if you are not angry at what is going on in our political, social and economic structure currently then you have no social conscience.
The young man who has not wept is a savage, and the old man who will not laugh is a fool. George Santayana
by Bobjack23 on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 05:55:01 AM PDT
would like Hillary or Obama as our President you truly have no social conscience.
by roseeriter on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 06:04:03 AM PDT
...as it is likely obvious to most. Now go sit in the corner...and don’t forget your little pointy hat.
by Bobjack23 on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 06:17:54 AM PDT
(and I see no snarky or smiley face so I don't think so), buzz off.
There is no fight to be had here. So stop pushing.
Please. ;o)
Stop the candidate wars or I'll do a bad thing...
by JVolvo on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 06:34:59 AM PDT
I believe Malacandra meant that maybe one should base their decision on something deeper than just gender idenity-i.e., issues and character. I could be wrong.
If Impeachment is "off the table", then Democracy is, probably, "off the table"- Chalmers Johnson 3/06/07
by scamp on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 06:10:08 AM PDT
by roseeriter on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 06:22:15 AM PDT
of humor. Just demean, dismiss, ridicule so thanks for proving my point.
by roseeriter on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 06:23:42 AM PDT
you ever get tired of pointing the finger at people who do exactly the same thing you do?
by bam bam on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 07:01:19 AM PDT
female voice and vote don't matter. Guess I'll go home and bake some more cookies.
This IS an Edwards diary after all. Carry on.
by roseeriter on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 07:26:06 AM PDT
For hijacking a moving and compassionate diary by a respected and passionate member of our little online community.
Contact Pelosi about impeachment: AmericanVoices@mail.house.gov
by Pescadero Bill on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 07:46:12 AM PDT
that your attitude of so-called "feminism" is twisted and hateful and has no place in a diary about compassion for the poor and suffering. you pick fights here, throw the first punch, and then claim yourself as the injured party. if you're going to dish out bile, be prepared to be called on it.
by gooddog on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 08:07:49 AM PDT
the quote at the end of all her comments, completely contradicts her comments, more times then I can count.. She says something she knows is worthy of a rebuke, she gets it and tries to play the victim. I really think that she has a spolied child that logs on as her, and starts going off like she lost her meds.
by bam bam on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 09:12:16 AM PDT
be TRd.
The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all - JFK- 5/18/63-Vanderbilt Univ.
by oibme on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 10:24:30 AM PDT
a similar landscape between your legs does not necessarily mean Hillary will be for you. I don't want our first woman President to get there by being more hawkish than the male candidates, more corporately funded, and distorting the positions of the other candidates when she's truly smart enough to know better.
-7.75, -6.05 The point of the war in Iraq is that there IS a war in Iraq- Keith Olbermann
by nicolemm on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 07:13:58 AM PDT
I've been a 'feminist' since the age of ten, long before the word existed...when my older sister was wed. It outraged me that girls had to discard their last name, change their identity, just because they got married. From then on 'because this person is female' has waved a red flag in my face.
Gender voting - 'because this person is female' - without weighing a candidate's behavior, history, priorities and policy positions still raises that red flag.
"Evil is a lack of empathy, a total incapacity to feel with their fellow man." - Capt. Gilbert,Psychiatrist, at the end of Nuremberg trials.
by 417els on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 11:36:31 AM PDT
...based on your criteria?
Should she go by: a) her skin color or; b) her gentalia?
Or heed the words of MLK and go with: c) the content of the candidate's character?
by I am Spartacus on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 08:10:05 AM PDT
are you an African American woman?
"The World Is My Country, All Mankind Are My Brethren, And To Do Good Is My Religion." - Thomas Paine
by xph on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 08:36:05 AM PDT
Just thought that someone needed to ask the question
by I am Spartacus on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 08:43:49 AM PDT
a question were you? You were making a statement disguised as a question. You were making a point, not seeking an answer.
I don't disagree with the sentiment, I just think you could have made the point just as well- even better- if you had done it in an assertive way. Instead of taking a back-door "just asking an innocent question" approach.
by xph on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 08:49:32 AM PDT
I can't believe you are questioning someone's framing of a comment.
You might want to check out what wiki has to say about the Socratic Method.
Bush Administration: Proving the saying, "You can fool most of the people some of the time, and 30% 24% 19% all the time."
by Helpless on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 11:02:11 AM PDT
...(SIGH) Remember the good old days when one could be nuanced and subtle and most people---even those with opposing points of view---would get it?
by I am Spartacus on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 01:36:49 PM PDT
am i forced to vote for a white man?
(Even though there is another man who would be better for the country)
Identity Politics sucks.
Wasn't operation chaos the RNC's '06 midterm election plan?
by dvschase on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 04:27:47 PM PDT
Impeach or be impeached.
by Hens Teeth on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 12:09:47 PM PDT
is supporting Edwards, for all the reasons teacherken listed....it's all about the Benjamins. Still, it's awfully nice to have the opportunity to see a black man or a woman of any race running for president with a real chance at getting it.
(-6.63, -6.15) "And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention"--Talking Heads
by terran on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 02:34:30 PM PDT
And...You must be very limber to be able to see your rear.
The longer I live, the clearer I perceive how unmatchable a compliment one pays when he says of a man "he has the courage to utter his convictions." Mark Twain
by Persiflage on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 04:43:23 AM PDT
I guess I'll always have to vote for a man then...I suppose he'll have to be white too, since I make all important decisions based on the most shallow, meaningless criteria.
Issues be damned...who looks and pees like me, that's what it's all about.
The penalty that good men pay for not being interested in politics is to be governed by men worse than themselves. - Plato
by robroser on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 07:50:55 AM PDT
too are a minority and have a chance to vote for that minority candidate to represent you. Oh wait, white men have doing a bang-up job for the last (???) years!
How's that glass ceiling treating you Rob?
This is a normal response. It reminds me of guys that wanted to play on the LPGA Tour when Annika Sorenstam played on the PGA Tour. Although, you would probably agree, eh?
Keep fighting the good fight.
by xph on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 08:40:01 AM PDT
You've got a candidate between your legs? So far no candidate has gone that far to get my vote. Guess I'll have to vote on the issues, darn it.
-7.50, -7.74 Republicans = Borrow and Squander
by GMFORD on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 09:02:07 AM PDT
I have definitely limited my decision, but it's still difficult. Like you I have given money to Edwards x2, because I thought his voice needed to be heard. While I do have some hesitation because what he says is 100% in line with my heart and mind, his record is not. I know all the reasons, but it's just the one thing that has me kind of stuck.
There is one candidate who I was generally ambivalent about. In the last two days I have absolutely crossed them off the list, knowing that if they are the candidate in the general election It will take every once of personal stamina I have to swallow the bile that will be required to vote for them.
Then there's the candidate who I have policy disagreements with, but that I think provides the best chance of transforming the world image and our collective country identity.
Earlier tonight I was watching various video and I started to really engage with the third.
Still undecided however. I guess I fall into the camp that wants to see them on one ticket.
by dc 20005 on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:21:10 AM PDT
His passion and action for the working class is phenomenal - and has not changed since 2003!
To those with concern for his Senate voting record (me too, a little) I remind all that he was a freshman Dem representing North Carolina - not San Francisco! Bush won NC 56% to 43% in 00 and 04.
To expect John Edwards to stand stronger than Daschle and Gephardt on AUMF and (un)Patriot Act in the post-Sept 11 (hey Rudy!!) atmosphere of "Ground Zero", anthrax mailings (Dems only, huh), the shoe-bomber, Reicht Wing Hate Radio -->"Traitor!!", Dixie Chicks record burnings, Bin Laden, etc. is a pretty high hurdle.
More data points: in 02 the Senate swung from 51-49 Dem to 51-49 RePub. The House went from 221-212 RePub to 229-204 Repub (Indeps with Dems in all cases).
Not to ignore the concepts of courage and honor in the face of adversity, and JRE was still a rookie Dem on the losing team on the swampy side of the tug-of-war rope...with wimpy leadership.
Compared to his Dem Senate contemporaries and those running now, I'm ok with his record.
Here's an awesome website for the House/Senate data.
by JVolvo on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 07:34:50 AM PDT
on poverty issues, consumer rights, women's rights...he has never wavered. Look a little deeper into his record in the Senate. He proposed an amendment to Tele-Health that would have given better access to health care services to rural Americans. He co-sponsored countless minimum wage bills. He proposed numerous bills to better fund our public schools. He not only championed the Patients Bill of Rights but he also proposed legislation that would have regulated big pharma advertising. He proposed the Women in Trauma Act which would have funded women's shelters and provided them with services to help women who were physically, sexually abused and had addiction problems. There's a lot out there.
I do think that if we had an Edwards/Obama/Clinton ticket we'd win. ;)
by sarahlane on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 09:27:51 AM PDT
Well argued essay from you heart.
"There is one man who knows in his heart that we have to build one America - not two - and that man is Barack Obama." John Edwards 5/14/08
by TomP on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:22:52 AM PDT
i wrote in quickie diary that regardless of substantive policies of the 3 candidates (many which are similar), who would best actually implement the change we want. and concluded it was edwards. i know all 3 candidates talk about change, but edwards has done things to show he understands not just talking, but doing and how to be creative to find a way to implement changes we want.
by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 09:39:20 AM PDT
Well argued essay from you heart. ---TomP
Tom you could not have said it any better.
Ken...
Your Essay was the most profound writing I have encountered on this blog. How does one live one's values? http://www.dailykos.com/...
My own contemplative practice is Dzogchen, but no matter what the tradition, any one who has sat in silence knows what that poem means. For me I experienced "The Awakened Heart" and wept.
Your words made me recall the teachings of Mahatma Gandhi... "the little man in the loin cloth" who simply embraced his own humanity and compassion for others and defeated the greatest military power of the time through non-violence.
The Words of Mahatma Gandhi: "One needs to be slow to form convictions, but once formed they must be defended against the heaviest odds." . . "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." . . Hatred ever kills, love never dies; such is the vast difference between the two. What is obtained by love is retained for all time. What is obtained by hatred proves a burden in reality for it increases hatred. . . It may be long before the law of love will be recognized in international affairs. The machinery's of government stand between and hide the hearts of one people from those of another. . . However much I may sympathize with and admire worthy motives, I am an uncompromising opponent of violent methods even to serve the noblest of causes. . . Mohandas Karamachand Gandhi, one of the most influential figures in modern social and political activism, considered these traits to be the most spiritually perilous to
