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...married Obama.
I trust Obama's judgment more than I trust my own. Why are YOU telling him what to do?
by Leggy Starlitz on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 01:56:09 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
The Clinton Campaign is going for broke with this one:
Clinton advisers Mark Penn, Howard Wolfson, and Steve Ricchetti (an old hand who seems to have returned) called an unusual conference call this afternoon to make their side of the "party of ideas" argument — that Democrats were the "party of ideas" in the 1990s. "That is Sen. Obama and his campaign rendering judgment on the Clinton era," Wolfson said of Obama's view that the GOP has been the party of ideas in recent years,. The advisers then defended a series of 1990s policies — in combination with the new radio ad featuring Bill, a clear sign that they think the argument about the 1990s is one they can win.
Clinton advisers Mark Penn, Howard Wolfson, and Steve Ricchetti (an old hand who seems to have returned) called an unusual conference call this afternoon to make their side of the "party of ideas" argument — that Democrats were the "party of ideas" in the 1990s.
"That is Sen. Obama and his campaign rendering judgment on the Clinton era," Wolfson said of Obama's view that the GOP has been the party of ideas in recent years,. The advisers then defended a series of 1990s policies — in combination with the new radio ad featuring Bill, a clear sign that they think the argument about the 1990s is one they can win.
Bill's Hip Hop SC Add... Spoken Word Bill
Bill's Key Phrase, digging up the 1990's
I want to thank you for twice giving me the chance to serve as president. The 1990s were a time of prosperity. We created more than 22 million new jobs, moved eight million people out of poverty, and turned our economy around. It’s time for another comeback, time to make America great again. I know Hillary’s the one that can do it.
I want to thank you for twice giving me the chance to serve as president. The 1990s were a time of prosperity. We created more than 22 million new jobs, moved eight million people out of poverty, and turned our economy around.
It’s time for another comeback, time to make America great again. I know Hillary’s the one that can do it.
The 1990's are now an issue.... it's almost as if the Clinton's are daring Obama to go there, or stupid enough to think they win.
I don't know how you win an arguement when the history reads:
1994 was the start of modern Partisianship 1994 Was the end of Healthcare Reform 1994 Was the end of Democratic Majorities
1990's was an economy on a bubble
1990's saw the Democratic Part shrinking
1990's Saw more scandals than i care to repeat, an impeachment and disbarment...
Is this truly an arguement they wish to bring out? If Obama drops these key points, the Clintons will be left reeling and the #1 weapon the GOP will use against Billary will be at Obama's disposal...
It harkens back to his new line of clarity: "She'll say anything and change nothing"
A Comeback is hardly Change I can believe in..
by Steven R on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:15:31 PM PDT
Just sayin'...
"The revolution's just an ethical haircut away..." Billy Bragg
by grannyhelen on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:18:03 PM PDT
I think this kinda of move will start a bit of a movement back to Obama... The Clintons have overstepped and now we'll have a long long campaign because of it.
If they'd played nice after Nevada, they'd of coasted to Victory but they couldn't help themselves.
by kubla000 on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:21:58 PM PDT
... at about the time Clinton hired Dick Morris and shifted hard to the right. Reich was an old friend of the Clintons, but he was always much more of a progressive than the Clintons (though a pragmatic one).
by Joe Buck on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:32:10 PM PDT
Reich turned on the Clintons during the 1990s at a a time when the media whores ate up every story they could find about this or that liberal who was disappointed in Clinton...Reich, who is a smart guy and a thinker, doesn't understand politics...I take his criticism now with leff than a grain of salt.
Wars not make one great. - Yoda
by Volvo Liberal on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:43:43 PM PDT
That comment is just beyond absurd.
Pretty Bird Woman House has a new house!
by betson08 on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:47:08 PM PDT
I mean, it was like 40 years ago, and Reich served in the Clinton administration aferward.
Unite for Obama!
by ohiomeister on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:54:48 PM PDT
Al Rodgers finds virtue in the politics of corruption and exploitation.
Citibank is one of the leading sub-prime offenders. Reich is a fucking ghoul who sent tens of thousands of lower-income folks into bankruptcy.
Nice people.
by kidneystones on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:41:58 PM PDT
Bless you, kidneystones, for letting me test out "Hide" instead of "Troll"
by baronzito on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:50:40 PM PDT
What was it about the comment that should be hidden?
by qwerty on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:01:59 PM PDT
WWYTR? Voting, contributing, supporting, and electing Democrats
by PaintyKat on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:03:27 PM PDT
"Al Rodgers finds virtue in the politics of corruption and exploitation."
That's an attack in itself.
by joynow on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:11:50 PM PDT
Calling Reich a ghoul is an opinion of the commenter, and is not any type of namecalling of other members.
What about the point he makes in reference to Citibank, the sub-prime interest rates, and their forcing tens of thousands of lower-income folks into bankruptcy?
Wondering if many of them weren't college students because when I was in college in the late 80s through early 90s, Citibank was the one dispensing Credit Cards to students like candy from a PEZ dispenser. Many students got into serious trouble before they made it to their professional careers.
If students rely on student loans and also have credit card debt, it limits their future decision-making tremendously. Many times they are limited in location and unable to take advantage of the best opportunities that require relocation.
Looks more like disagreement unfortunately.
PaintyKat
by PaintyKat on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:02:48 PM PDT
Google knows everything, Google forgets nothing. Google is everywhere. Google is an unmerciful god.
Your message here. Email for summer rates.
by RudiB on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:29:48 PM PDT
bit saying "Al Rodgers finds virtue in the politics of corruption and exploitation." really is name calling
I'm confused. Maybe it's cleared up as I keep reading but how is that OK with everyone?
I didn't rate it, it's already got enough but I would have for that line.
by joynow on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:17:45 PM PDT
I think you're pointing to Rubin, who was Clinton's Sec'y of Treasury, not Reich, Sec'y of Labor.
(-8.00,-7.85) "Jesus Christ was the first nonviolent revolutionary." --S. Stills
by bubbanomics on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:10:09 PM PDT
for the life of me see why this was hidden, so I'm uprating.
by DMiller on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:07:03 PM PDT
Check out some of his comments and diaries. Plus, his facts are not even right, but facts matter little to kidney.
by baronzito on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:20:12 PM PDT
that doesn't fall in line with your Obama worship must hate him, can't we just disagree?
Don't sell out John! Damn, too late, lost another to the dark side!
by ichibon on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:31:36 AM PDT
and i found the comments disgusting.
I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever TJ
by cdreid on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 01:57:59 AM PDT
Those of you hating Obama can keep uprating kidneystones if you want, but you are only bringing the site down. Have fun.
by baronzito on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 05:08:50 AM PDT
differences of opinion over candidates wasn't a reason to troll rate/hide comments.
by DMiller on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 10:05:19 AM PDT
Citigroup was enabled by Clinton's deregulation. Sandy Weill boasts how Clinton did his bidding.
Blue Jersey: New Jersey Progressive Politics
by John DE on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:08:24 PM PDT
Go Barack Obama
by concerned on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:11:46 PM PDT
FOR the Bankruptcy Bill!
Obama, or McCain
by Elise on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:34:00 PM PDT
I disagree very strongly with this comment but can't see any reason whatever that it should be hidden.
Uprated to counter troll ratings.
It is the folly of youth to think they can change the world; it is the folly of old age not to try. -- Winston Churchill
by penguins4peace on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:30:53 AM PDT
His link has nothing to do with Reich. Reich has nothing to do with what kidney is talking about. He is wrongly throwing around aspersions because he hates Obama. He constantly makes up crap to make Obama look bad, and facts mean nothing to kidney.
That's why it should be hidden. It is offensive and an outright lie. Period. It is a lie.
by baronzito on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 05:11:02 AM PDT
Reich is brilliant, and I have great respect for him. But he too is a man. He is stating his opinion. I take his opinion seriously, but it is still his opinion. And as for understanding politics, Bill Clinton certainly went much futher than Rob Reich in their political careers.
Please do not make the mistake of thinking that I do not have extremely great respect for Robert Reich and his intellect; I do. But his is politics, and if RObert Reich likes Obama better than Clinton, that's fine. I like them equally, personally. But I'm voting for Edwards. I just want to be able to be happy no matter which of the three it ends up being.
I'm sorry Bruce... these boys get that syrup in 'em, they get a little antsy in the pantsy. -Capt. John O'Hagen (Super Troopers)
by The House on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:17:21 PM PDT
Or was the federal judge just stating an opinion? Reich's "opinion" is well supported.
by RudiB on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:34:45 PM PDT
thing there is, no? You mean lying over Lewinski, right? And well supported opinions are still opinions.
by The House on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:41:55 PM PDT
by ichibon on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:32:07 AM PDT
It's the fact that even Bill's secretary of labor and old classmate has turned on him. I'm praying for Al Gore to endorse Obama.
by JTA on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:50:05 PM PDT
In contrast, that he'll take your concern to heart.
by pletzs on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:47:38 PM PDT
Well, maybe Clinton should not have given liberals like Reich so many reasons to be disappointed.
by ohiomeister on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:52:20 PM PDT
But I don't have to agree with everything he says. IMHO, Bill is afraid that Hillary will lose and that he'll have to deal with her grief at home afterwards because if they lose, she'll blame him for "not being supportive enough".
She'll sing,
"Oh, I was on your side, Bill, when you were losing..."
So Bill Clinton is going overboard with the smears and the strawman positions.
His attacks on Obama are baseless.
-4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."
by sunbro on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 07:21:02 PM PDT
And a toast to her memory.
by penguins4peace on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:33:05 AM PDT
The Clintons betrayed many people who believed and trusted in them. Clinton looked many of his close advisers in the eye and lied to them. Flat out lied.
He brought Dick Morris in... Dick Morris for goodness sakes.
Remember when Bill tossed his press secretary under the bus and hired GOP David Gergen instead? Do you remember Dee Dee Myers and George Stephanopoulos?
by bronte17 on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:19:38 PM PDT
during a press conference and told us he did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky.
The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all - JFK- 5/18/63-Vanderbilt Univ.
by oibme on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:39:52 PM PDT
If so, she forgave the LIE as well as the BJ.
by RudiB on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:38:33 PM PDT
and I'd have preferred he said nothing to us about sex but lying about sex is the least of my issues with him.
None of us should ever have had to hear one word about his sex life. I have many policy issues with him (NAFTA, tax cuts for the richest and so on) but the Monica issue wasn't one of my problems.
But I agree with the clip and the text of this diary. Shameless to try to bring down a good person in his own party...on lies and smears and distortions.
by joynow on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:55:51 PM PDT
do you remember Al Gore? Clinton screwed him too. Responding to Volvo here, not bronte17.
by TLS66 on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:43:52 PM PDT
The Monica mess started in 1998.
Please, people, study your history.
As I said, Reich is a very smart person and I was the beneficiary of his work in the school-to-work arena and worked retraining...But he stabbed the President in the back when he left and fed into a disgusting media narrative...
His criticisms now are of the same piece. I would expect Reich to criticize Clinton now. Why diarist is surprised is beyond me.
by Volvo Liberal on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:26:22 PM PDT
Very Clintonian.
He's a traitor because he didn't agree with the policies of Bill Clinton the President, and said so.
A TRAITOR.
After all, it's about loyalty to the Clintons, not to anything like morals, progress, or decency.
JOHN McCAIN = George W. Bush's 3rd term.
by chumley on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:01:22 PM PDT
Anyone who ever worked for Dubya but criticizes him, Dubya has huge fits of anger over the "betrayal."
The Clintons are too similar. No wonder they get along with GHWB so well.
Economic -3.50/Social -2.41 End Dubya/McCain neocons. Obama '08!
by CenterLeft on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:16:59 PM PDT
by Bush Bites on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:18:09 PM PDT
Or to the U.S.A., for that matter.
by chumley on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 07:16:56 PM PDT
to Volvo liberals everywhere.
Incendiado para arriba, listo para irme.
by gobacktotexas on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:36:42 PM PDT
Robert Reich is NOT a traitor. He is playing a role similar to the one John Dean is playing on the right.
He witnessed the chicanery first hand, and his conscience is compelling him to speak out.
Obama/Reed '08
by nocore on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:57:16 PM PDT
politics do you mean that he doesn't understand the art of democrats triangulating and adopting conservative economic policies so as to maintain political power even while betraying progressive aims? I don't understand that either.
by Philoguy on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:53:47 PM PDT
is for Robert Reich and traitor in the same friggin sentence.
Robert Reich is probably the leading intellectual on the left with a voice. He's also the architect of absolutely ANY good that came out of the clinton administration economically. If you had a clue whom you're speaking about you'd apologise publicly for your statement.
by cdreid on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 01:56:04 AM PDT
bahahahaahah calling out the misdeeds....it is now official, the Clinton's Republican-lite-ism has now hit the mainstream.
Obama '08 Barack Obama is not a Muslim
by bikko100 on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 05:15:34 AM PDT
He worked hard on NAFTA.
Winning without Delay.
by ljm on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:13:47 PM PDT
has denounced Bill. Reich is just one of many. Apparently, Bill does not play well with others.
Another Proud Edwards Democrat.
by lzachary on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:47:35 PM PDT
Curious....what is your percentage ratio on that one? Rounded off is okay... Cuz 'nearly every' (in all caps) sounds to me like it's got to be, oh... 90% to 95% on a good day, right? Let me know as I'm about to get my google finger cranked up for action. Not that I don't trust you.
by ms in la on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:21:00 PM PDT
I don't think Mike Espy did either. But Clinton can keep those rotten apples, they were corrupt.
by TLS66 on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:45:32 PM PDT
...but it appears she's hoping Hillary will put her back in the saddle.
(I think she's terribly overrated. I still remember her as Sec. of State raging that "George Bush should have went to Baghdad and finished the job!")
by Bush Bites on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:26:42 PM PDT
last I checked, Espy was acquitted.
As for Cisneros, there was another idiotic independent counsel involved. Enough said.
Barack Obama for President '08
by v2aggie2 on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 07:01:26 PM PDT
I've had to watch his dreary act here in Massachusetts. He means well but if you trust his judgment, you're doomed.
Renewal. Not mere reforms. We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. Martin Luther King Jr.
by killjoy on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:21:52 PM PDT
criticism you've got going there.
by gobacktotexas on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:42:56 PM PDT
We did so much better trusting the judgement of Shannon "Wanna see my tattoo" O'Brien didn't we?
by aisling on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:06:04 PM PDT
Willard Mitt Romney? I'll go with Reich.
by gobacktotexas on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:09:49 PM PDT
How did you do? I did well but got tired and stopped.
I had a really hard time finding all those denouncees you referenced of which "Reich is just one many". More like maybe... one of three?
I did however find all of these former Clinton folks below who are still firmly in the Clinton camp. Looks like 'nearly EVERYONE'! :)
_________________________
Madeline Albright Former Sec of State, Clinton 08 campaign top foreign policy advisor William Perry Former Sec Def Endorsed Clinton 08 General Wes Clark Former Supreme Allied Commander under Clinton Endorsed, supporting and stumping for Clinton 08 Richard Holbrooke Endorsed & Advisor Clinton 08 Sandy Berger Former Natl Security Advisor endorsed, advisor Clinton 08 Gen. Shlikashvili Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Endorsed and Advisor Clinton 08 Warren Christopher Former Sec State Endorsed Clinton 08 Alexis Herman Former Secty of Labor, glowing commentary about her 8 yrs with Bill Clinton on NPR- last March. No endorsements yet. http://www.npr.org/... Henry Cisneros Former Sec Housing and Urban Development Endorsed Clinton 08 Andrew Cuomo Former Sec Dept Housing Urban Development Endorsed and surrogate Clinton 08 Rodney Slater Former Sec Transportation Just stumped passionately for Clinton in Vegas http://www.lasvegassun.com/... Robert Rubin Former Sec of Treasury Endorsed and Advisor Clinton 08 Janet Reno Fomer Attn General, Endorsed Clinton 08 Louis Caldera Former Sec of the Army Endorsed Clinton 08 Sheila Widnall Former Sec of the Air Force Endorsed Clinton 08 John Dalton Former Sec of the Navy Endorsed Clinton 08 Roberta Achtenberg Fmr. Assistant Secretary, U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development Endorsed Clinton 08 Richard W. Riley Former Secretary of Education Endorsed and Advisor to Clinton 08 Togo West Jr Former Sec of Veterans Affairs Endorsed Clinton 08 Ambassador Joe Wilson Endorsed, Advisor Clinton 08 Hazel O'Leary Former Sec of Energy Endorsed, Clinton 08 Mickey Kantor Former Sec of Commerce Endorsed Clinton 08 Vernon Jordan Former Presidential advisor Key fundraiser and endorsed Clinton 08
Madeline Albright Former Sec of State, Clinton 08 campaign top foreign policy advisor
William Perry Former Sec Def Endorsed Clinton 08
General Wes Clark Former Supreme Allied Commander under Clinton Endorsed, supporting and stumping for Clinton 08
Richard Holbrooke Endorsed & Advisor Clinton 08
Sandy Berger Former Natl Security Advisor endorsed, advisor Clinton 08 Gen. Shlikashvili Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Endorsed and Advisor Clinton 08 Warren Christopher Former Sec State Endorsed Clinton 08
Alexis Herman Former Secty of Labor, glowing commentary about her 8 yrs with Bill Clinton on NPR- last March. No endorsements yet. http://www.npr.org/...
Henry Cisneros Former Sec Housing and Urban Development Endorsed Clinton 08
Andrew Cuomo Former Sec Dept Housing Urban Development Endorsed and surrogate Clinton 08 Rodney Slater Former Sec Transportation Just stumped passionately for Clinton in Vegas http://www.lasvegassun.com/... Robert Rubin Former Sec of Treasury Endorsed and Advisor Clinton 08
Janet Reno Fomer Attn General, Endorsed Clinton 08
Louis Caldera Former Sec of the Army Endorsed Clinton 08
Sheila Widnall Former Sec of the Air Force Endorsed Clinton 08 John Dalton Former Sec of the Navy Endorsed Clinton 08 Roberta Achtenberg Fmr. Assistant Secretary, U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development Endorsed Clinton 08
Richard W. Riley Former Secretary of Education Endorsed and Advisor to Clinton 08
Togo West Jr Former Sec of Veterans Affairs Endorsed Clinton 08 Ambassador Joe Wilson Endorsed, Advisor Clinton 08
Hazel O'Leary Former Sec of Energy Endorsed, Clinton 08 Mickey Kantor Former Sec of Commerce Endorsed Clinton 08
Vernon Jordan Former Presidential advisor Key fundraiser and endorsed Clinton 08
Plus a slew of deputy, assistant and under secretaries and endless numbers of ambassadors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/...
I know Robert Reich and Frederico Pena have gone to Obama's campaign. About three other former cabinet members have sadly passed away.
Outside that, there were only a handful I didn't get to look up (4 or 5)
Given administration and cabinet members are not that plentiful... all in all, lzachary... I honestly think you need to revise your statement. More importantly though, you need to revise your opinion-- on that issue anyways.
Knowledge is good
by ms in la on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:33:59 PM PDT
That does sound like most of the cabinet. Good Job MS, you know your stuff!!! Hillary Clinton is a true leader and will be a fine President. :D
by capi888 on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:53:49 PM PDT
***chirp***... LOL!! ms in googleland strikes again!
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right. --Hunter/Garcia
by jen on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:20:55 PM PDT
It's windy and raining here, and yet ... I kept hearing the anachronistic sound of ...crickets! ;)
by ms in la on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:27:16 PM PDT
with the exception of a few. Richard Holbrook I think is a disaster. They are there because they want jobs. So many others who are the younger brighter ones of gone with Obama. You can keep yesterday's news. I want fresh faces with new visions.
by ronnied on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:23:32 PM PDT
the comment was made that:
NEARLY EVERY Clinton cabinet member has denounced Clinton.
The list - (even though admittedly there were some, ick, older people on there... it's not easy to have served in the cabinet 15 years ago and still be 'youngish') .... the list was an answer to the accusation that the cabinet had all fled the Clintons.
This is why it was greeted with... crickets.
Because it clearly shows that was obviously grossly inaccurate, no matter how you distort it. Is that so hard to see?
Now if we want to move on to the illuminating discussion of caliber and motive....
It's often said here, as you just did, that the only people who gravitate towards the Clinton camp are those only out for jobs for themselves. Like Ambassador Joe Wilson, well known as a consummate compromising opportunist when it comes to advancing his own career positions above all else... yeah, right.
I won't bother to go down the rest of the list, there are people who have- yech- wrinkles and stuff so it's not really worth it. And I would not be surprised if the post-literates romping in the orange fields these days have taken to smearing Amb. Wilson since his endorsement anyways. There is only a limited space for so much sacred in one room, after all...
Have you looked-- even glanced-- at Obama's fresh faced advisory list lately?
You should. You have faces from all the way back to the Nixon administration. You have fresh young faces who served under the Carter, Reagan, Geo HW Bush, Geo W Bush,, Clinton and yes even one from the Nixon administration there! You have a former assistant to Henry Kissinger, an advisor to the Reagan-Bush election committee, a key member of the Scooter Libby Legal Defense Fund--yes, THAT Scooter Libby that so oft gets mentioned in Obama's speeches, all at the tip of your own Google finger.
Does anybody bother to read anymore? Seriously. It's so easy to just LOOK up these things. It's public friggin' record.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
If you want fresh faces to run your country- I'd suggest you support Hannah Montana for president and call it a day.
by ms in la on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:44:00 PM PDT
...or not. How about stepping up and taking responsibility for his role at this time?
by grannyhelen on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:48:47 PM PDT
They caused Bush, Newt, and Cheney.... It was the foil for Bush's war on terror...
it's the reason the country is such a mess.
Clinton has a very short list of successes he can honestly claim on his own. Had it not been for republicans forcing him to do it, I doubt seriously he'd of balanced a single budget.. and the internet bubble created the jobs... what bubble will Hillary blow to get us back to work?
by kubla000 on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:23:36 PM PDT
for giving us that budget surplus?
by bronte17 on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:20:49 PM PDT
Most seem to be saying there were not so many pluses and too many minuses.
We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"
by Gooserock on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:27:40 PM PDT
....but it's ridiculous to say his administration was brimming with new and creative ways to govern.
They were basically running a kinder, gentler version of classic free trade Republicanism.
by Bush Bites on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:30:29 PM PDT
he's probably the best Republican president we had in the 20th century. (free trade, fiscal responsibility, welfare reform,...)
by RudiB on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:50:58 PM PDT
Credit Gramm-Rudman and what we now call "pay-go." The more courageous part was the 1993 tax increase (which Bill later said he regretted, but I don't think he actually did or should have). A lot of Democratic freshman lost in 1994 because they boted for that tax increase.
by RudiB on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:48:53 PM PDT
trimming government inefficiencies through implementing and upgrading hardware and software for example, as well as slicing into the massive Pentagon budget that Reagan had feeding on steroids.
The Berlin Wall came down and the Cold War ended "history." Or so Fukuyama would have us believe.
The Rethugs were absolutely livid that the sacrosanct military would be touched even though we had that span of a peace dividend. The '96 Pentagon budget was $265 billion (not including the interest on past military spending which totals another $167 Billion annually).
You know we're over $500 billion annually now, excluding those supplementals and all the defense department money tucked into other agencies.
And no one can get a handle on it.
by bronte17 on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:57:52 PM PDT
due to tax increases on the wealthiest, with nary a Republican vote.
Can we be at least honest about some things that happened then?
"I don't belong to any organized party, I'm a Democrat." Will Rogers
by Do Tell on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:44:17 PM PDT
is part of interview on Bill Moyers Journal
BILL MOYERS: You point out, by the way, that Bill Clinton as president gave the super rich a larger tax break than George Bush's tax cuts, right? DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: Yeah, I love to trot this one out when somebody goes, "Oh, you're from the New York Times. You must be, you know, pro-Democrat or liberal or whatever." I'm the guy who broke the story and reported on the fact that Bill Clinton gave the super rich, the 400 highest income people in America a big tax cut. They were paying 30 cents out of each dollar of their income to the federal government when he came into the office. When he left, it was down to 22. Bush has lowered it to 17. Now, first of all, notice you're probably paying more than 17 cents. May well be paying more than 22. But Bush gave them an eight cent tax cut-- I'm sorry. Clinton gave an eight cent tax cut and Bush only gave them five cents.
BILL MOYERS: You point out, by the way, that Bill Clinton as president gave the super rich a larger tax break than George Bush's tax cuts, right?
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON: Yeah, I love to trot this one out when somebody goes, "Oh, you're from the New York Times. You must be, you know, pro-Democrat or liberal or whatever." I'm the guy who broke the story and reported on the fact that Bill Clinton gave the super rich, the 400 highest income people in America a big tax cut. They were paying 30 cents out of each dollar of their income to the federal government when he came into the office. When he left, it was down to 22. Bush has lowered it to 17. Now, first of all, notice you're probably paying more than 17 cents. May well be paying more than 22. But Bush gave them an eight cent tax cut-- I'm sorry. Clinton gave an eight cent tax cut and Bush only gave them five cents.
NAFTA for corporations, tax cuts for their CEOs. But to his credit FEMA was good
by joynow on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:07:56 PM PDT
tax increases on that same richest 400 rose as he raised their taxes when he came into office to balance the budget and then later in his presidency, lowered the capital gains taxes in 1997. This same author's piece in the NYT also proves that Clinton lowered taxes on the wealthy. This is David Cay Johnston's story in the NYT:
Very Richest's Share of Income Grew Even Bigger, Data Show
In 2000, the top 400 on average paid 22.3 percent of their income in federal income tax, down from 26.4 percent in 1992 and a peak of 29.9 percent in 1995. Two factors explain most of this decline, according to the I.R.S.: reduced tax rates on long-term capital gains and bigger gifts to charity.
So, the rate that those 400 paid rose from 26.4 in 1992, to 29.9 in 1995, after Clinton's tax increase, and then were lowered to 22.3% by the end of his presidency, when we were all flush with stock market gains and budget surpluses.
Unless their discussion on Moyers included this information, it was misleading and dishonest not to include the earlier tax increases on the wealthy as proof that Clinton initially raised taxes on the wealthy.
Like I said before, I am no Clinton fan, but we must try and be historically accurate about the facts and not distort his record, as other wise we are acting like Republicans who lie to create the picture they want to see.
by Do Tell on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 05:20:03 AM PDT
I'm trying to put this together From my link
30 cents when he came into the office 22 when he left
26.4 in 1992 22.3 in 2000
I hear you saying there was a tax increase in the middle but I guess it's the initial rate that's confusing...the difference between 30 when he came in or 26 in 1992. Perhaps he said "when he came in" but meant the high of 29.9 in 1995?
Now it is still the 8% cut (just like they say to let the temporary cuts expire would be an increase).
Do you know if the middle class got a cut? I saw what the richest lower rates were mostly due to but did actual rates get cut for any group?
It was a shock when I heard the interview last week and I looked for evidence of middle class cuts and all I found were links to the campaign promises, though I did see earned income credit level rose It would be a relief if he was better than this looked. I wasn't happy about it (even being angry at his behavior now) I wondered if my sense he was "good for the middle class" (except NAFTA and so on) was some memory fuzzed up by a general fondness.
Thanks for the info
by joynow on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 07:24:57 PM PDT
The Republicans did not make him do it, but it is true they flourished in the '90s: The Contract for America and the squashing of Hillary-care.
-7.75, -6.05 The point of the war in Iraq is that there IS a war in Iraq- Keith Olbermann
by nicolemm on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 09:57:35 PM PDT
Like using Rushisms? "Billary?"
by Partially Impartial on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:27:37 PM PDT
Hillary needs to start doing the heavy lifting... she's leaving too much for Bill to do.... they've really grown into the term Billary because now Bill gets as much if not more attention than her. She'd be served well by a Bill Vacation, too bad he's wandered off the reserve.
by kubla000 on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:32:03 PM PDT
them. Just like for the GOP in the 90s...
by Partially Impartial on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:33:10 PM PDT
1993 = Oath of office, Waco, World Trade Center bombing #1, NAFTA, Don't Ask, Don't Tell...
1994 = Universal Healthcare announced at State of Union, fails shortly thereafter, Rwanda, Democrats lose both House and Senate,
1995 = Newt Gingrich elected speaker of the House, bring "Contract With America," Bill signs CWA's Defense of Marriage Act, Welfare to Workfare (both Republican ideas)
1996 = Pres. election, government shut-down, "When Bill Met Monica,"
1998 = Investigatons into Bill and Hill, relationship with Monica revealed, Impeachment looms. Escapes conviction by skin of his teeth, Bill Clinton, in reality was a mediocre president. A foreigh policy that fumbled around, Economics that succeeded, not because of anything Clinton did, but by an economy fueled by the dot com boom. He left office just as the dot come went bust. He spent more time attending to things of personal interest than truly governing. Partisan divide grew under Clinton -- never a "uniter" only a divider. Those of you who so desperately want to return the Clintons to the White House should first take a REALITY CHECK of your own, to see that with the rose colored glasses off, things were not that great after all.
by kubla000 on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:38:16 PM PDT
It worked.
by elial on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 02:54:54 PM PDT
worked better (payroll tax increases of 6% were under Clinton, and all these went into the general fund, to be spent).
Clinton continued the serious rift in income gap between the haves (top 1%) and the have nots (the bottom 90%) during that period. A full 7% under Regan, 2% under Bush - mostly due to stock market ickyness, and not to be out-done, 9% under Clinton. Add another 2% drop due to Bush Jr (once again, it'd be worse if not for stock market tanking), and we're at income level differences not seen since the 20's. Clinton had a huge part to play in this.
by Great Uncle Bulgaria on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:47:23 PM PDT
...he wasn't able to stop it.
My mistake.
http://correntewire.com/...
by elial on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 05:00:15 PM PDT
and that worked because we all think of him as taxing them.
From Bill Moyers Journal earlier this month
by joynow on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:13:11 PM PDT
And thanks so much for this diary!
I couldn't wait to get home to see the latest!
Right now most reporters are reporting the 'false statements' of the Clinton's against Obama, then correcting them--good!
I tell you, the Cliinton Dynasty has truly done itself in and the very sad part is they are wanting to take the Democratic Party down with it!
That's not surprising though, the Democratic Party under Clinton and his 'leadership' pretty much was almost destroyed anyway--him with the DLC'ers!
Ya know the Clinton Dynasty could have coasted to a big win had they not taken this polarization road of the right wing.
"People should not vote for any Republican, because they're dangerous, dishonest and self-serving"
by Wary on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 03:14:58 PM PDT
NewYork, NewJersey, CA will all go to Clintons. Delegates enough for first ballot win.
BJ and wife have been at this for 16 years, 8 as pres, 8 standing by, always triangulating, riding the public's mood, everything pointing to '08.
Gore and Kerry, both men of character, were splattered with BJ's sleaze. We all were.
If Bush hadn't been such a collosal asshat, I suspect dem party would not be so over-confident as to nominate such an antagonistic couple. Alas, instead of a leader we can be proud of, we get a rerun of the 90s. Payback's a bitch.
Barak Hussein Obama- God Bless America.
by odenthal on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:02:34 PM PDT
but CA apportions its delegates by congressional district, not statewide. Also, the Democratic Party as a general rule allocates delegates proportionally, so winner-take-all thinking doesn't really apply. Thi
