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Sorry...
I still believe that individual liberties ARE an important part of being an American, and there's no getting around it --- if you want socialism, you have no choice but to part with some of those liberties.
I guess everyone's got their own blog now.
by zonk on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:21:13 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Taxation takes away your liberty. Professional licensing requirements take away your liberty. Libel laws take away your liberty. Most importantly, and never discussed because of the way the issue has been framed, your own limitations take away your liberty: I can't be a rocket scientist or a defensive tackle.
If we woke up tomorrow and the means of production were owned by the state, we would, of course, totally freak out. But I can also imagine a cultural change, over time, that leads to an America where that wouldn't freak us out.
-5.38/-3.74 I've suffered for my country. Now it's your turn! --John McCain with apologies to Monty Python's "Protest Song"
by Rich in PA on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:25:42 AM PDT
My "liberties" do not entitle me to be a rocket scientist just because I want to. That's in fact antithetical to a libertarian viewpoint -- either you're capable of becoming a rocket scientist and you work to become one -- or you don't because you either didn't work to become one or you weren't capable of becoming one.
You aren't guaranteed the right to become a defensive tackle -- but you are free to try to become one.
Receiving a professional license is choice - any liberties -- any invasion into my personal life necessary to secure and maintain those licenses, are decision I and I alone make. I'm aware of the choice - and I choose to pursue that license or not pursue it.
Libel laws don't take away my liberty -- they protect yours.
I'm not sure exactly where you're getting your views on liberties from -- but they have nothing to do with mine, nor, I suspect -- anyone that values their freedoms to the degree that I do.
I'm not an anarchist - I accept the payment of taxes. I accept social programs for the common good. I happily and always vote "yes" for school funding initiatives... public works projects... I even believe in universal access to healthcare.
What I have a problem with are situations where the government - any government -- chooses to interfere with my private life. If I -- an adult America - decide for whatever reason, that I do not wish to have healthcare... say I believe in faith healing... or new age/alternative medical care... or just plain don't like doctors -- then I, an adult American -- should have the right to refuse a health care plan and the government should not penalize me for exercising it.
by zonk on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 06:34:54 AM PDT
...social democracies have less liberty than you?
Teacher's Lounge: Out of Habit is open
by rserven on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:30:37 AM PDT
on what you consider an individual liberty.
My point is that "liberty" is more than just say/live/write/etc what you want.
Part of that is also about being free from government intervention... and yes -- sometimes that does include a right to be stupid.
Since I imagine we're ultimately talking healthcare - I'll put it this way.
Do I support a single payer system -- where I, of my own free will and volition, can choose to seek care when appropriate (preventative and curative)?
Yes I do.
I even support paying more taxes to finance such a system.
Do I support a mandated program where the government says I must sign up for this program... or I get signed up automatically... or I pay a fine?
Unequivocally, No.
What I believe in faith healing? What if I believe in nonconventional or new age medicine? What if I just plain don't like doctors or hospitals? What if I'm really paranoid and just don't want anyone poking me in certain places?
Shouldn't I have the right not to go along?
The key is availability vs. forced enrollment.
My entire view on this matter is NOT predicated me being a believer in new age medicine/faith healing/etc (I'm none of those). It's NOT predicated on me believing the government or some government blessed entity is going to use my personal records against me (they probably wouldn't).
My entire view is predicated on the fact that I believe that it should ultimately be MY choice as to whether or not I participate in something that effect my own personal body.
by zonk on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:17:47 AM PDT
wide narrow
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