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The Second Amendment doesn't prohibit background checks. The Second Amendment doesn't guarantee felons and the insane the right to own a gun.
http://query.nytimes.com/...
If background checks at federally-licensed gun stores are constitutional, then what is unconstitutional anout background checks at gun shows and private sales.
There are actually felons suing to get the Supreme Court to overturn that decision though. That would be great news because giving felons the right to own firearms is the quickest way of convincing normal people that the Second Amendment needs to be repealed.
by ortcutt on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:32:49 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
What I am opposed to is the diarist's slashing attacks on the Second Amendment itself, our Constitution given right to bear arms.
The handgun that I will soon by is as much a part of American idealism as is your freedom to choose the religion that you do or do not practice
The war for oil is a war for the Beast The War on Terror is a war on peace
by El Yoss on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:37:34 PM PDT
by Rex Manning on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:55:25 PM PDT
In .357 magnum
by El Yoss on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:02:09 PM PDT
Can't go wrong with S&W revolvers though Ruger makes some great ones too.
I think you can fire .38 rounds with that too which makes target shooting a lot cheaper.
by Rex Manning on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:07:25 PM PDT
down at the range. The 686 is a pretty heavy gun, so using it with .38 special rounds produces a very light recoil, while the .357 magnum packs a good punch and will be good for feral hogs (big, nasty beasts, and quite aggressive)
by El Yoss on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:12:38 PM PDT
...who hunted feral pigs with .357 revolvers. They had dogs who would corner the pigs then they would move in and kill the pig with the pistol.
Sorry I lost touch with those guys. They always had plenty of meat to share and it was damn good.
I met a Hawaiian guy who used dogs to hunt feral pigs too but the crazy bastard used a big knife instead of pistol to kill the pigs.
Whatever works.
by Rex Manning on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:22:35 PM PDT
I think I'll refrain from using the knife. The teeth on those damn boars are waaaaaay too big for my comfort.
I've been stalking hogs with my Remington 700 rifle (in 30-06) but I really want that .357 as a backup in case a big boar gets angry and charges me.
by El Yoss on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:37:56 PM PDT
You're just wrong.
There was not 'slashing attack on the second amendment' in this diary...if there was, you wouldn't see the trail of stupidity leading up to your inane comment.
What there was in the diary was a slash against the NRA and it's slippery slope theory of fighting everything--including incredibly worthwhile and sane attempts to limit the spread of handguns to people that shouldn't own them.
Would you give a blind person a driver's license? Would you let them fly an airplane? Why the fuck would you allow an emotionally unstable or mentally unstable individual to own a handgun?
You want to call up our founding fathers and see if that was their intent? After they finished cursing your stupidity to hell, they'd shake their heads at what a pathetic pack of morons their country had become populated by.
In short, this has nothing to do with the second amendment and everything to do with a lobbying organization that is utterly out of sync with America, circa 2008.
The NRA is the problem as I've said. If you still support these assholes, so are you.
Dump Steny Hoyer
by DelicateMonster on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:28:04 PM PDT
...over Establishment violations as well.
Satanists asking for equal time in public schools could encourage the repeal of the First Amendment as well, at least the establishment clause. Would this be a good thing?
I'm thinkin' no, myself.
by Corwin Weber on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:45:21 PM PDT
the second amendment carefully. A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Are you using your gun(s) in a "well regulated militia"?
How shall we interpret the word "REGULATED"?
Please don't get literal, with scraps and phrases. It demeans the conversation. The constitution is, and always has been, must be, subject to interpretation in the context of contemporary society, or else it will become a useless scrap of paper.
You want a gun? Fine. Keep it locked up, in the armory, where you and your militia can get to it, when threatened.
by ChuckInReno on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 10:57:12 PM PDT
by ortcutt on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:00:03 PM PDT
You are the one who is getting literal here.
The founders obviously intended and desired that citizens would own their own firearms. Nobody intended citizens to give up their firearms and place them in any sort of central armory in time of need.
Defending one's country against one's government is probably the most important application of the Second Amendment, especially as it relates to modern society. We must preserve our right to bear firearms for this reason alone.
Tell me, if Blackwater mercs attacked you in the dead of night because you said something Dick Cheney didn't like, would you like to go to the armory to get your gun? Nah...
by El Yoss on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:08:20 PM PDT
not accurate to suggest that it is...
What is obvious is your sweeping statement that "Defending one's country against one's government is probably the most important application of the Second Amendment, especially as it relates to modern society."
Is something the founding fathers would have found especially scary. You might recall Shay's rebellion or the Whiskey Rebellion and how both were put down--by state militia. You've conflated individual desires with 'militias', as seems to be the desire with most gun obsessives. They are two distinct things as the founding fathers understood quite well, because they had to use one in opposition to the other.
Learn your history. You'll find your position much more tenuous then you now presume.
by DelicateMonster on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 12:06:47 AM PDT
Let's take a look at what the actual Founding Fathers and leading American patriots said about the subject of gun ownership, the militia and firearms in general:
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government" -- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good" -- George Washington "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188 A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks. --- Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1785. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors. [The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. ---James Madison,The Federalist Papers, No. 46. Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive. ---Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787). [W]hen the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually...I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers. But I cannot say who will be the militia of the future day. If that paper on the table gets no alteration, the militia of the future day may not consist of all classes, high and low, and rich and poor... ---George Mason "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes....Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. ---Thomas Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in Chapter 40 of "On Crimes and Punishment", 1764. "Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self defense." ---John Adams:(A defense of the Constitution of the US) "...arms...discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. ...Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived the use of them." ---Thomas Paine "A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms." ---Richard Henry Lee(Additional letters from the Federal Farmer, at 169, 1788)
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government" -- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good" -- George Washington
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188
A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks. --- Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1785. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.
[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. ---James Madison,The Federalist Papers, No. 46.
Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive. ---Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).
[W]hen the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually...I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers. But I cannot say who will be the militia of the future day. If that paper on the table gets no alteration, the militia of the future day may not consist of all classes, high and low, and rich and poor... ---George Mason
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes....Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. ---Thomas Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in Chapter 40 of "On Crimes and Punishment", 1764.
"Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self defense." ---John Adams:(A defense of the Constitution of the US)
"...arms...discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. ...Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived the use of them." ---Thomas Paine
"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms." ---Richard Henry Lee(Additional letters from the Federal Farmer, at 169, 1788)
by Rex Manning on Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 11:29:40 PM PDT
wide narrow
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