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A really sad statement about race relations in America.
by Philosopher on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 04:36:09 PM PDT
folks to vote for him just because of his race or gender.
I agree - I support Edwards but I do not want him to win votes due to any entrenched sexism or racism in society. I don't think he wants to win that way, either.
"The revolution's just an ethical haircut away..." Billy Bragg
by grannyhelen on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 04:45:29 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
he's also made very sure that voters understand that he is the one guy that "sounds like previous democratic presidents."
If that does not code race, gender and dialect, I don't know what does.
Obama for President '08
by Bronxist on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 05:48:59 PM PDT
Speech patern as a factor for his ability to win!
He definately knows what sells, that southern drawl and what doesnt, beacoup melanin
by wuod kwatch on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 06:20:15 PM PDT
results from SurveyUSA that suggest that Edwards is not pulling white support from Obama at all. It suggests Edwards has pulled white support from Clinton and has pulled REPUBLICANS from Obama, and that Obama has stayed about flat otherwise. I am sure the Republicans are white, but you don't see a race effect on the category for just "white" voters, so I don't know if that excludes Republicans or if the raw number of Republicans is so small that in the total sample it only counts for about a 1 point loss. (hoomai29's diary)
The point is, you don't see here the racial effects that the diarist is arguing for.
Here are the tabulated Survey USA changes for the candidates from Jan. 18 to Jan. 25. Category Edwards % Clinton % Obama % Independents 27 to 39 32 to 20 29 to 36 % Pts. Change +12% -12% +7% ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Republicans 12 to 34 29 to 31 52 to 26 % Pts. Change +22% +2% -26% ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Democrats 14 to 18 36 to 32 48 to 48 % Pts. Change +4% -4% 0% ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Blacks 3 to 6 20 to 18 74 to 73 % Pts. Change plus 3% minus 2% minus 1% ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Whites 26 to 38 50 to 38 22 to 21 % Pts. Change plus 12% minus 12% minus 1% ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSA Ttl. 01/18 15% 36% 46% SUSA Ttl. 01/25 24% 30% 43% % Pts. Change plus 9% minus 6% minus 3% ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Zogby 01/23 15% 25% 43% Zogby 01/25 21% 25% 38% % Pts. Change +6% 0 -5%
Here are the tabulated Survey USA changes for the candidates from Jan. 18 to Jan. 25.
Category Edwards % Clinton % Obama %
Independents 27 to 39 32 to 20 29 to 36
% Pts. Change +12% -12% +7% ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Republicans 12 to 34 29 to 31 52 to 26
% Pts. Change +22% +2% -26% ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Democrats 14 to 18 36 to 32 48 to 48
% Pts. Change +4% -4% 0% ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Blacks 3 to 6 20 to 18 74 to 73
% Pts. Change plus 3% minus 2% minus 1% ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Whites 26 to 38 50 to 38 22 to 21
% Pts. Change plus 12% minus 12% minus 1% ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSA Ttl. 01/18 15% 36% 46%
SUSA Ttl. 01/25 24% 30% 43%
% Pts. Change plus 9% minus 6% minus 3% ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Zogby 01/23 15% 25% 43%
Zogby 01/25 21% 25% 38%
% Pts. Change +6% 0 -5%
by Mother of Zeus on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 07:42:11 PM PDT
but as a native Southerner, and half black myself, the rest of the country has been deluding themselves about the state of race relations in America. In most of the South outside of large cities and college towns, it is now and forever 1962, and not in a good way...
No politician ever lost an election by underestimating the intelligence of the American public. PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 04:45:40 PM PDT
Give 'til it doesn't hurt so much: ACLU & SPLC
by bottsimons on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 04:46:42 PM PDT
How far North are you talking? Fort Bragg? Eureka? Mendocino County? They struck me as pretty liberal. Granola actually.
.
by MKS on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 04:55:33 PM PDT
their issues. I'm in the CT and even today getting an oil change watching MSNBC's coverage of Hillary at Benedict college someone leaned over to me talking about "how she just wants to give those people money".
I was able to point out Benedict played a historic roll in the civil rights movement, at which point I think this person decided I probably wasn't the right type of person to share these sentiments with.
And CT is a blue state.
by grannyhelen on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 04:59:58 PM PDT
Hillary won New Hampshire with lower income whites who had fled Boston....
During the busing controversy of the 70s, Boston had some of the most racist demonstrations against busing.....Those folks would now be older, white & Hillary voters?
Obama will have to transcend.....
by MKS on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 05:05:48 PM PDT
...but yes, there is entrenched racism in Boston and imo a lot of it has to do with Where People Live, or choose to.
by grannyhelen on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 05:16:08 PM PDT
the surface.
I look Scandinavian -- but I have relatives who look Native American -- we have a mixed ethnic heritage.
In Washington State there are a lot of red-necked haters and I've been in situations where based on my outward appearance people have confided in my their deepest racists thoughts.
I'll listen -- let them dig their hole -- and then I'll educate them. The potatoes that they had for dinner was thanks to South American Indians -- and the corn and pumpkins -- again Indians. Oh and the peanuts -- the genius of a blank man.
Obama isn't my choice -- I made my choice based on issues. I've been a Jessie Jackson delegate -- and voted for a man rather than the woman candidate based on issues. (Besides the woman was a GOP religious right ring NUT.)
But you know in the Caribbean -- even "light" black people discriminate against the darker black individuals. I have a dear friend who happens to be a blank woman who is a "light" Caribbean with small lips. She fell in love with a dark Caribbean man and had to leave the islands to be able to marry him -- she also had to wait until her parents died. The history she gave me on this issue could probably fill book.
BROKAW: You know what I think we're going to have to go back and do? Wait for the voters to make their judgment.
by Carib and Ting on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 05:16:27 PM PDT
The things people have said to me because I look "white enough" would make some of you reading this retch.
by bottsimons on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 05:38:44 PM PDT
when it comes to Barak?? He has no chance and the Rethugs are supporting him knowing it.
Dkos = democracy. The only problem is that both give voice to idiot and genius alike. Read an anti-Hillary diary lately?
by JamesBrown4ever on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 06:13:56 PM PDT
by bottsimons on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 05:02:34 PM PDT
Atlanta, GA to Los Angeles, CA to Boston, MA and all sorts of places in between.
And we're not talking about this as a country - instead we're letting the COM get us all hyped up on race and racism, without talking about why it exists or how it really affects people.
Not one of our finer moments as a democracy.
by grannyhelen on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 04:50:37 PM PDT
as an example, because I think of that time as the lowest point in our history after Reconstruction...
by jarhead5536 on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 04:52:56 PM PDT
history of lynching in this country, I might disagree with you. It was so prevalent folks sent each other postcards of lynching.
It was so prevalent "Strange Fruit" became a classic.
I think you can find lots of low points in our history after Reconstruction, unfortunately.
by grannyhelen on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 04:57:17 PM PDT
Ireland, in France, in the UK, Italy, Spain, you name it, I've seen it everywhere, in Australia, South America, China, Japan...it's inherent in all of us, sadly.
Sic Transit Gloria Locavore!
by Asinus Asinum Fricat on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 05:03:56 PM PDT
Do you think a ticket with Edwards for president and Obama for VP would help break through that? Edwards is my first choice, but I hate the thought that he could win because SC because so much racism still exists. I would think an Edwards/Obama ticket would be pretty strong.
by Ramelle on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 04:51:42 PM PDT
workable for the "wrong" reasons. Even so, that would be an improvement. It's very difficult to talk about these things - for everyone. Race, socio-economic status, racisism, classism, are issues we wish did not exist, yet they persist. Openly discussing them lays us each open to allegations - no fun.
by bottsimons on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 04:57:04 PM PDT
But what's always been most powerful for me is to start by admitting that I'm racist. I'm also homophobic. I'm probably anti-semitic too. And I'm a Jewish lesbian. The thing is, how can I not be racist? I was raised in a small redneck Southern California town. Kids in my school were white or Mexican (often what kids called "Wetbacks"), and my television idols growing up were The Brady Bunch, Charlie's Angles, The Bionic woman, The Partridge Family. The way I see it, if I start trying to assert I'm not racist, all that happens is that I'm going to get defensive and have a hard time looking honestly at myself ("Oh no, if I felt that, that would mean I was racist and I KNOW I'm not racist, so of course I don't feel that"). Trouble is, that stops the dialogue. I remember once, maybe fifteen years ago, I went to Detroit to see my brother in a play. I was alone in the audience and I sat one seat in. A very large African American man came and sat in the aisle seat next to me. Now I just generally don't like being squeezed into a seat rubbing shoulders with someone I don't know. If that man had been white, if he'd been a woman, I'd have moved seats without even thinking about it. Because he was black, I went through all sorts of internal questions and anxiety and ultimately stayed in that seat and was uncomfortable (about rubbing shoulders with a stranger), because I was so concerned that he'd assume I'd moved because of racism. What should I have done? I still don't know. It's all so complicated. I'm no expert on this topic, but I've thought about it a lot and I do believe that openly discussing is preferable to the other.
by Ramelle on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 05:32:11 PM PDT
forgot to mention - the kids were also uniformly Christian. there was one other Jewish kid in my high school, and nobody liked him. I think the closest I got to "Jewish" on television was Rhoda. And um lesbians? Don't even get me started. Sure did like Charlie's Angels and the Bionic Woman though. etc.
by Ramelle on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 05:34:07 PM PDT
is to give money to Obama. Like you, I too was wracked by pangs of my internal racism, but I contributed money and Obama granted me dispensation. I feel a lot freer now.
Given your comments, I'd say about 2 grand would cover it ... but does not have to be in one chunk -- $100 dollars, twice a week, preferably on an empty stomach.
by Bronxist on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 05:54:27 PM PDT
if I really like Edwards' ideas/message/politics best of the candidates, would giving money to Obama be along the lines of not moving out of my seat at that play? I mean, as I said, I think this is an internal struggle at many levels, not just around racism. I know for a fact that I have a ton of internalized anti-semitism. So, should I assuage my guilt by giving money to Lieberman next time around? Maybe I should go ahead and send money to the Log Cabin Republicans while I'm at it. I think I'd rather focus not on assuaging my guilt, but on having open and honest conversations and trying to learn. In some ways, assuaging guilt is maybe just more of the same, trying to deny what's there by covering it up. I don't know. I think you were being snarky, but with the tone of the primaries these days, it's hard to be sure...
by Ramelle on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 06:20:56 PM PDT
I was being snarky ...
Sitting and tormenting yourself endlessly with imagined internal monologues on your racism/anti-semitism/homophobia/sexism/ageism is nothing more serious than a case of narcissism.
Even to be racist, you have to care about other people at a certain level.
And perhaps you do.
If so, do act like it. To not be racist you must act anti-racist.
Get off your ass, stop trying to have honest conversations about yourself as the subject, and do something about people that are hurting.
Or send Obama and Edwards some money.
by Bronxist on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 06:44:57 PM PDT
every time I get a pay check. And while I'm sure I have my share of narcissism (most therapists and writers do), I don't really sit and torment myself endlessly. The comment about how resistant people are to talking about racism got me thinking and reminded me of that incident at the movie theater.
by Ramelle on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 03:53:26 AM PDT
Wish Edwards much luck today!
by Bronxist on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:48:22 AM PDT
I read, and thought about, what you wrote, Ramelle. Thank you for your openness, honesty, and adventurous spirit! So, you might know a thing or two about discrimination? Yes. It got lost along the thread, in the cheesy fundraising pitch and snark, but was there. We're all discriminated against in one way or the other, some more than others, and moreso at different times.
Even overly-priviliged white men have their moments, when they are discriminated against somewhere, by someone. These just happen to be fewer, further between, more forgetable, and generally involve far less violence and terror.
On the other hand, I'm absolutely certain I'm anthropophobic, but completely indiscriminate about it! (flashes big grin)
by bottsimons on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 09:58:47 PM PDT
work, the same way Donnie and Mary-Mary won the AA anti-gay bigots over.
Can Obama find a way to win over bigots from other communities, too?
Let's ask the Obama gang, this is their specialty. I mean, when they're not preaching the politics of inclusion.
by kidneystones on Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 04:49:10 PM PDT
wide narrow
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