View Story | 51 comments
Comments: Expand Shrink Hide (Always) | Indented Flat (Always)
Talking about the "arc of his life" can be said of any of the candidates. Because some people like to hear that stuff they all have to say it and try to sell their life story.
But it doesn't sell me unless the person's positions on the substantive issues prove that there is a there there.
Saying that Obama's live story is special and better than the other candidates is just too much hero worship for my taste.
"The United States will always do the right thing, after trying all the other options." ~ Winston Churchill
by Gregory Wonderwheel on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 04:23:27 PM PDT
and you are a cynic if you disagree.
by catfish on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 04:29:54 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
To a liberal. How many politicians do you know that started their working life helping build institutions for the inhabitants of any place like the South side of Chicago? How many world class law students - and that objectively classifies Obama's record at Harvard - turn down becoming immensely wealthy in the corporate or other big law spheres to work as a teacher and a Civl Rights pro-bono attorney. How many with How many with this record of legislation It realy is unfair to point out the other candidates haven't made the kind of difference Obama made thfrough those laws. I know no legislator anywhere with that kind of accomplishments in any chamber.
The problem many of us have is we can't admit there realy are heroic people left in this world that is too often run by and for the greedy and the grasping. This is a hero for this age.
"Obama. He's redefining what a politician is... take the best from the past, leave the worst back there and go forward into the future " Bob Dylan
by SmithsLastWord on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 04:36:17 PM PDT
I'd buy a FP ad and just post this quotation from Eugene V. Debs:
I am not a Labor Leader; I do not want you to follow me or anyone else; if you are looking for a Moses to lead you out of this capitalist wilderness, you will stay right where you are. I would not lead you into the promised land if I could, because if I lead you in, some one else would lead you out. You must use your heads as well as your hands, and get yourself out of your present condition.
"Run, comrade, the old world is behind you!" -- Situationist graffito, 1968
by Pesto on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 04:45:06 PM PDT
Which is a difficult line to balence. Debs of course detested the great man in history school of explaining the worlds events. But he had to prove himself the best candidate for the socialists and the country - accomplishing only th first recognition of his greatness.
Obama started as a community organizer. His win last week was because of an organization of millions of ordinary that formed as a response to his candiadcy. Community organization is not to be taken lightly as some dynastic candidates might. One of the first community organizers grew sickened with part of what the people he helped organize in Chicago's meat packing tenements dod with the power he helped them to organize. But he knew he didn't on the organization he only helped start. No one owns an institution but the people who are involved in it - and all of them have a stake. This is not a top down sort of campaign. It's not a leader of a vanguard. community organizers ask that you organize to solve your own problems - like electing a community organizer to the Presidency.
by SmithsLastWord on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 04:53:32 PM PDT
while he was imprisoned for his political beliefs.
(if memory serves me correctly)
You can't choose sides on a round planet.
by IamLorax on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 05:19:09 PM PDT
my grandmother was a campaign worker
"Junkies find veins in their toes when the ones in their arms and legs collapse." - Al Gore
by parryander on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 05:33:09 PM PDT
he's the candidate in a presidential primary campaign.
One of the best signs of this is that no Alinskian organizer would ever put him or herself at the center of attention the way that a candidate has to. This isn't Obama's fault -- it's just the nature of the enterprise.
And there's another very key difference between an electoral campaign and an Alinskian community organization: an electoral campaign has a very clear, unambiguous goal: winning the election. Obama's campaign can be open to ideas and input and suggestions, but it's not open to thousands of Obama volunteers saying, "We've decided to drop this whole Presidential campaign -- we're going to fight for better public transit to our neighborhoods. With your money."
I think Obama has been very vague so far about exactly what kind of "change" he wants to achieve. Alinsky built organizations so that communities could deal with external institutions of power -- City Hall, the companies that owned the livestock yards and slaughterhouses, etc -- that were screwing them over.
Democratically negotiating priorities within the community was a part of this. But it wasn't the only point of the enterprise. The point, in the end, was to help ordinary people fight back against people who were messing with their lives. I fully agree that Alinsky believed strongly in letting community/organization members figure out who to go after in that effort, but he certainly had his own ideas about how society actually worked -- he just thought the most effective thing in the end was to ask people, rather than tell them.
What would it mean to try to organize the entire US as an Alinskian community organization? Or is Obama only trying to include as subset of America in the "unity" (that doesn't seem likely, or in keeping with his rhetoric)?
Back to Debs: he had a very clear sense of what workers had to do to "lead themselves out of the capitalist wilderness": organize unions (or one big union), take control of industrial capacity, and organize the economy and society on democratic lines.
Debs was an ideological socialist, and in that sense incredibly and unapologetically partisan. I'm having trouble bridging the gap between Obama's rhetoric of change and his calls for post-partisan, general unity.
by Pesto on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 05:26:13 PM PDT
I am having the same problem with his rhetoric... I asked my 19 yr old nephew - he says Obama 'just connects'. Okay...and?
by parryander on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 05:34:56 PM PDT
at his firm. The choice was between being obscenely rich or just really well-paid but doing good work, and he opted for the latter. I'd do the same, and a lot of people would, too. It doesn't make him a fucking saint.
by burrow owl on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 05:25:53 PM PDT
Any version of heroic is admirable and worth encouraging these days (i.e., the last 7+ years).
by greengemini on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 05:55:44 PM PDT
Or somebody's dad or mom.
Obama may be your hero for some weird reason, but until he slays the Rethug dragon, gets our govt. straightened out, and gets universal health care, I am not calling him a hero.
Your standards may be as low as hearing a few speeches that warm your heart, I think most people's standards are a bit higher.
Children in the U.S... detained [against] intl. & domestic standards." --Amnesty International
by doinaheckuvanutjob on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 07:33:10 PM PDT
"Saying that Obama's live story is special and better than the other candidates is just too much hero worship for my taste."
___________
How is that hero worship? Isn't it OK to appreciate that?
Personal connection does matter in politics, along with substance.
Barack Obama for President '08
by v2aggie2 on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 04:55:12 PM PDT
To wind up with the integrity and abilities that Obama has -with his sensibilities and his accomplishments. Obama is extraordinarily admirable in what he set out to do and what he has done. That should makes him heroic to liberals except for those who dont think anyone is heroic. for this latter group there is no better epithet for the graveyard of human expectations they keep except to call it cynicism.
by SmithsLastWord on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 05:04:18 PM PDT
I myself don't believe in hero worship (or even "heroes"), but I think admiring somebody does not fall in that category.
by v2aggie2 on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 05:10:04 PM PDT
When youi find people are better than you imagine then you might become less cynical and develop heroes of your own. If all we had was examples from our leadership over the last years we would all be cynics. But there is much good in humans when they are allowed to nurture their better angels.
by SmithsLastWord on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 05:21:32 PM PDT
When Obama fails to live up to his preposterously built-up image, that hero worship will collapse on itself and he'll become a traitor. I can see it from a mile away.
by burrow owl on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 05:30:07 PM PDT
a lot of people like Obama not because he is superhuman, but because he is human.
His book, Dreams From My Father, sold me on him from a personal level. But believe me, he is not superhuman in that book. What sold me was that I could relate to his experiences.
But that's just me.
by v2aggie2 on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 06:28:30 PM PDT
wide narrow
View Story | 51 comments