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"yes we can"
please pardon the poor keyboarding, i can never decide which two of my ten thumbs to use, so hopefully some of you are fluent in Typo
by TAPayne on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:55:06 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
to old, quaint, ideas such as All men [people] are created equal regardless of citizenship or not and endowed by inalienable rights, regardless of citizenship, or reverting back to clear separation of powers.
We may get Habeas Corpus back, though.
It looks just like a Telefunken U47 - with leather...
by Jeffersonian Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:02:48 AM PDT
"quaint" ideas, as you put it, were gradually swept out with the dawn of the Industrial Revolution.
"The erudite are not wise and the wise are not erudite." - Lao Tzu
by TheKost on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:09:30 AM PDT
unfortunately this cannot be hung on the last seven years alone, it's been happening for decades. Which is why I am doubtful that they will come back in full force.
by Jeffersonian Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:11:21 AM PDT
/snarky reference to the ex-Attorney General's remarks on a note to President Bush, to wit, that the Geneva Conventions were a 'quaint' or old-fashioned idea.
Si, se puede cambiar~~Yes, we can change~~Obama '08
by Angie in WA State on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:12:12 AM PDT
, why cant patient gradualism work for the restoration of these things as it has worked to unravel them in the past
by TAPayne on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:10:05 AM PDT
I am a pessimist ;-)
by Jeffersonian Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:12:09 AM PDT
"the optimist invented the airplane, and the pessimist invented the parachute" ;)
by TAPayne on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:15:20 AM PDT
We're heading towards a set of tipping points, any of which can turn America into something best viewed at a safe distance.
What are we going to do about:
Get all of this more or less right in the next few years and we'll have a chance to rebuild America into a prosperous and democratic nation.
Get it right a decade from now and America's last remaining important resourcem, the Federal government's ability to borrow will be pissed away in tax cuts for the wealthy, health insurance company subsidies traded for junk insurance for all, and on military misadventures like Iraq.
Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.
by alizard on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 03:04:33 AM PDT
tinted glasses you're looking though to the past. America has never lived up to those ideals. Ever.
The promise of America is that we keep on trying, working through the injustices and inequalities as we go. We've had some setbacks, but the core of this country is that we believe that it's not enough just to take things as they are, but to strive for that 'More Perfect Union' that we've all heard about.
Like a great man said, and another has repeated.
The arc of history bends towards justice.
by EvilAsh on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:27:28 AM PDT
is a little demeaning. Merely lots of study of Rousseau, Herder, Voltaire, Locke Jefferson and the like. Those ideals were materially written in historical documents.
But also with the territory come the Robespierres and Andrew Jacksons. There is no denying the big warts, such as the attempt to write slavery out in the Constitution but political expediency required the support of the southern colonies, or the massacres of indigenous populations.
But there is also no denying that for a time, the US was the best hope and a beacon in a time of degenerating aristocracies, social class stagnation, and bourgeois empires. Until, of course, the US succumbed to the same forces.
Never before in human history had so many thinkers and political leaders come together to actually try to change the human condition, and they did succeed to a certain extent, but they couldn't do it all themselves... hence the Great Experiment.
by Jeffersonian Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:35:48 AM PDT
All I meant was that when you stated that we wouldn't return to those ideas you implied that we had ever lived up to them in the first place.
Church and state has been a battle since the beginning, and we've never really gotten the hang of all that 'all men(people) are created equal' stuff.
In many ways, this country has made more social progress that we could have ever imagined. In others, we're falling short. But we're moving in the right direction.
by EvilAsh on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 03:43:15 AM PDT
that I fear that we may have given up even trying to live up to them, even if the track record wasn't the greatest, we were at least trying.
Now, if you are not a citizen and even if you are it is sketchy, coming through a US airport you have no rights or liberties. Perhaps not obvious on the domestic front (Obama being quite a stunning example) but in other ways I think we are actually headed backwards. As somebody else said on this thread, we'll see if we can put that genie back into the bottle.
by Jeffersonian Democrat on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 03:48:08 AM PDT
has been going on forever. There has always been a backlash against immigrants and foreigners, often much worse than now. I agree it's disheartening to see that we haven't come as far as I had thought, but sanity has always reasserted itself. Civil rights arrests, Kent State, The red scare, WW2 internment camps, WW1 anti-German sentiment, forced 're-education' of American Indians, the backlash against Russian immigrants, Irish immigrants, Vietnamese immigrants, Chinese immigrants. Hell, just about every sizable immigrant group since the inception of this country has been greeted with violent opposition and institutionalized bigotry.
by EvilAsh on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 03:59:41 AM PDT
wide narrow
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