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"Animals are my friends. And I don't eat my friends." -- George Bernard Shaw
by Hudson on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:10:55 PM PDT
Even Lancelot fell to the charms of a woman.
That's why I am willing to cut him some slack here. Also the speed of the leaks the coordination of the calls to resign....there is something definitely fishy going on.
So you wanted a Galahad, I can understand that. Though I am not willing to toss what has been to this point an exemplary public servant under the bus because of his inability to kill his libido.
The flesh is weak and the spirit not always strong enough to resist it, and I am not going to condemn a man for being HUMAN.
We all fall now and again, and we should all be a lot more understanding of that because it is a cold hard bitch to have your own standards thrown in your face when YOU fall.
People start calling you a hypocrite and calling for you head on a pike when that happens.
Capice?
by skippythebox on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:26:00 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
They give food for it.
It's almost part of our genetic code. It may not always involve the immediate cash but there is often the quid pro quo on some elemental level in many relationships, from kids on a date to the movies to old farts like McCain or Rudy Guiliani getting a new mistress/wife.
Enough triangulation, calculation & equivocation... regular politics won't do... so tired of bull that only the truth can provide relief - Molly Ivins on Hillary
by Judgment at Nuremberg on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:30:59 PM PDT
Call me crazy, but I don't.
by Hudson on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:35:09 PM PDT
We are all monkeys, sorry.
by Judgment at Nuremberg on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:43:42 PM PDT
Call me crazy for thinking that the intervening millennia should count for something.
by Hudson on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:48:35 PM PDT
that we are that biologically different.
We aren't.
It pisses many people off, especially religious types, but it is what it is. We are mammals.
by Judgment at Nuremberg on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:16:43 PM PDT
So "We're mammals!" is now a catch-all excuse for politicians behaving abominably.
Is killing and incest acceptable to us because these phenomena also occur among mammals?
No. We obviously are mammals, but we also have a consciousness which allows us to make choices that go beyond impulsive, instinctual or irrational behaviors.
by Hudson on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:31:30 PM PDT
just a lot less hair but animals just the same.
by skippythebox on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:32:35 PM PDT
... any difference between monkeys and humans?
Ever asked a monkey to perform a wire transfer?
by Hudson on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 08:00:58 AM PDT
have you noticed much difference between people and monkies?
We just dress up out bullshit a lot more with words.
by skippythebox on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:57:41 AM PDT
you will NEVER find a perfect human being.
Your standards are simply to much to ask for a fellow human being.
You must allow them to be human, especially the ones that are trying to be extraordinary in so many other ways.
And you are letting this ONE incident erase everything else he has done.
Not him, YOU. Because you are the only one with the power to erase it, not he, because what he has done IS done. You are the only one that can alter your memories of it.
And you have no idea of the context of the situation. He could have sought out a call girl because his wife and he no longer have relations. Yet you would demand of him that he let that side of his life die.....
That is not a reasonable request to make of another human being and you know it.
by skippythebox on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:31:59 PM PDT
But I do ask for honorable.
Especially when the politician sets himself up as Mr. Clean, a crusader for reform.
He can't get that agenda passed now.
He has wasted our time and money and energy and confidence, in the stupidest and clumsiest way imaginable.
by Hudson on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 08:02:22 AM PDT
and so far how he has handled this in the media is still honorable.
by skippythebox on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 11:56:28 AM PDT
Actually not that different from Bruno, Silver and Spitzer. But not what I want in my State government.
by Hudson on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:49:33 PM PDT
For example this unfortunate incident in 1999.
by Caj on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:21:39 PM PDT
They are nasty little beasts.
They are way smarter than dogs but make crummy pets. They don't like to take direction, they are headstrong, and when pissed, they fling poo at you.
by Judgment at Nuremberg on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:22:47 PM PDT
right after Craig & Vitter are prosecuted...
Frivolity is a harsh taskmaster- B.Griffith
by OMwordTHRUdaFOG on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:27:30 PM PDT
Would you shrug if your partner were exposing you to such risks?
by Hudson on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:34:41 PM PDT
they could have been being tied up or tying someone up or any number of things.
Sarcasm: It beats killing people...
by Dreggas on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:39:22 PM PDT
Also if so that is a private wrong between his partner and him. I don't need to hear about it. Nor do care to insert myself in their relationship and issues that may be more complex than just this one instance. It's just not for us to judge. I'm a strong believer in freedom and privacy.
by Judgment at Nuremberg on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:47:00 PM PDT
... he wants. As a private citizen.
It would take a ton of naïveté on his part to think that as a highly-visible anti-corruption reformer, he would enjoy the same lack of oversight as a private citizen.
And he has hurt the Democratic cause not only in New York State but nationally via his behavior.
by Hudson on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:51:23 PM PDT
while some privacy can be expected his zealousness in going after things like this just make him a hypocrite.
by Dreggas on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:01:58 PM PDT
considering the source is a leak within the post Rove DOJ.
As you should as well.
by skippythebox on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:24:36 PM PDT
open minded?
Spitzer's past history of zealous prosecutions leaves him open to the same scrutiny we give self righteous republicans. When one of them is caught in a situation such as this, we're screaming for his head.
To keep our side one a higher plane we need to view all actions of this kind equally.
Otherwise we are just as hypocritical as the R's.
It's the Supreme Court, stupid!
by auapplemac on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:42:24 PM PDT
with a stick up his ass.
Is what he did bad? Yes, but not so much so that it justifies tossing the rest of his life under the bus.
But of all the possible things that he could of done that are bad, this IS the most forgivable and understandable of them; and also the least harmful.
He sought out sexual release.
And unless the people casting the stones are verifiable MONKS, and have NEVER been tempted to stray even for a moment?
They need to keep their FPH shut, because they have ZERO right to judge as they are just as weak, just as human, just as ruled by their freaking sexual desires as every other human being on the planet.
And they are just as likely to fall flat on their faces as he did.
by skippythebox on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:55:24 AM PDT
The only "dick" here is Eliot Spitzer, who has treated his family and his supporters with callous disregard.
by Hudson on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 08:04:06 AM PDT
media so no, there is no major difference as to the effect.
You are still making a lot of emotionally fueled leaps to judgement that is pretty standard in situations like this.
by skippythebox on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:03:30 PM PDT
multiple times is the exact point of the emotional reaction to Spitzer.
When you stand before the public asking them to support you for office, it's time to zip of your pants and keep it zipped. You also don't take funny money or knowingly get involved with people whose dealings are questionable.
Fini!
by auapplemac on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 12:24:36 AM PDT
... of someone who didn't know she was being overheard.
by Hudson on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 08:03:00 AM PDT
but in this specific case the man was a prosecutor who railed against and put people away for this very crime. That does make him a hypocrite with no avoiding it and it's too damn bad.
Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67
by bythesea on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:42:22 PM PDT
smoke now.
So far we have knowledge of a single incident.... and no one is asking what might drive a man like Spitzer to that action given his record.
Perhaps we should, dontcha think?
by skippythebox on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:35:20 PM PDT
... that this was not a single incident.
by Hudson on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 08:04:44 AM PDT
Seriously, do you not recognize that a governor and former prosecutor can't survive this politically? It doesn't matter how much you care or I care, it's just a political reality.
by bythesea on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:18:02 PM PDT
throw him under the bus like they have been doing.
by skippythebox on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 01:25:46 PM PDT
to sound like the Freepers arguing that Craig wasn't gay and didn't break the law. Even if you think they have a point on one or both of those issues, you can't pretend it was politically no problem. If he had just been cheating on his wife, period, you would be right, but having an enforcer of the law and and now Governor involved in prostitution is not something that can be smoothed over. Going to a prostitute is NOT the same as simply having an affair to most people, even if that is the view of some Kossacks.
by bythesea on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 02:13:46 PM PDT
since it involves a far likelier emotional component. And that is a far, far greater betrayal then the other.
Not that I advocate the usage of a professional in this regard, just saying that the far greater betrayal in my eyes is having an affair because of the emotional part of it.
Now I generally agree with you on the importance of a person in that position to not be involved in wrong doing of any kind....
But I should not need to remind you that we have a war criminal in the White house. So I am not going to get worked into a lather over a sexual peccadillo of one of ours when one of theirs has the blood of over half a million human beings on their hands.
I simply don't have any outrage to spare.
by skippythebox on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 04:26:44 PM PDT
I'm not outraged either (though disappointed that he apparently thought he could get away with it when he's so despised by the GOP). I just think we should resign ourselves to the fact he really fucked up politically and move on, rather than pointlessly fight to defend him.
by bythesea on Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 08:00:08 PM PDT
Joe Bruno is under investigation by the FBI for public corruption. Spitzer hired a freaking hooker. Bruno's investigation stayed beautifully silent until after an election. Spitzer's got leaked within days.
There's no reason to hold Eliot to a higher standard than the republicks in the state senate. None.
"There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America." - Otto Prince Bismarck
by MBNYC on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:54:25 PM PDT
... to hold them both to a lower standard?
And was that the platform that Spitzer campaigned on?
Answers: No, and no.
by Hudson on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 09:57:44 PM PDT
He had to know that given his long-standing efforts to identify and punish the financially powerful and their schemes, he would always be subject to continuing efforts to find a way to bring him down. and yet he wound up hiring hookers and got caught at it. He failed his responsibilities of leadership and office.
That said, there are elements of how this case came to light which have something of a faint stench to them....and in the current climate of powerful government agencies armed with unchecked powers to wiretap and investigate and dig into a vast array of personal information, and to use it coupled with the powers to arrest and try and imprison......I am worried as hell that Eliot Spitzer, dumb as his actions were, might well be where he is right now in part, because the dark forces of a secretive and devious administration could well have been working behind the scenes to sow the seeds of his demise.
He clearly aided the process, but we all should be demanding to know how justice officials REALLY got into this case in the first place. Karl Rove no longer in DC means Karl Rove free to do a lot of stuff we all ought to know about and to do it with strong ties continuing to powerful forces in the administration who, it seems clear, would have no compunctions about doing his bidding....or in return, asking him to do things for them....off the books.
Free markets would be a great idea, if markets were actually free.
by dweb8231 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:23:44 PM PDT
....there was probably Republican funny business going on. But I also am pretty sure that they didn't force Spitzer to buy a prostitute. Like, Bill Clinton knew that the Republicans were looking for something, anything to bring him down. And he still decided to get a blowjob from Monica Lewinsky. Incredibly stupid or arrogant or crazy. Same deal with Marion Barry and smoking crack in that hotel room. He had to have known the FBI was closing in on him, but he did it anyway.
by metal prophet on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:21:31 PM PDT
And will you call for all three to resign?
John Hodgman is my homeboy.
by Rico on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:14:03 PM PDT
by Hudson on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:33:14 PM PDT
Particularly Vitter. Craig shouldn't resign for his behavior, but for his hypocrisy. Vitter should resign for using a prostitute, which I consider deeply disrespectful to women in general.
by metal prophet on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 11:22:31 PM PDT
wide narrow
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