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many, many times. but I guess that is 'different'.
"I will sink federalism into an abyss from which there shall be no resurrection..." Thomas Jefferson
by tony the American Mutt on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:13:40 PM PDT
to Hitler, and has had reactions of anything but scorn and disgust.
Come check us out at Strategy '08. Get all the information on Obama vs. the other guy.
by smash artist on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:14:29 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
...so it will appear at the top.
Look, I think this is a misunderstanding. As I stated downwards the diarist over at mydd is an Obama supporter and was making a statement about how asinine the comparisons to Hitler were.
Here is what the author over at mydd has since written:
My recent diary about Obama and an evil person by mecarr, Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 07:47:17 PM EST I recently wrote a diary titled "Is Obama like Hitler?" In it, I described how the Tom Sullivan show on Fox News Radio had a recent discussion comparing Obama to Hitler. I think such comparisons are outlandish. However, people have made comparisons. I made that diary not to imply that Obama is like Hitler, but to inform people that there are those out there that make such comparisons. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. The link describing what was on the Tom Sullivan show can be found at http://mediamatters.org/... 16
My recent diary about Obama and an evil person
by mecarr, Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 07:47:17 PM EST
I recently wrote a diary titled "Is Obama like Hitler?" In it, I described how the Tom Sullivan show on Fox News Radio had a recent discussion comparing Obama to Hitler. I think such comparisons are outlandish. However, people have made comparisons. I made that diary not to imply that Obama is like Hitler, but to inform people that there are those out there that make such comparisons. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.
The link describing what was on the Tom Sullivan show can be found at http://mediamatters.org/... 16
Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken. - Frank Herbert
by goldbirdy on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:39:02 PM PDT
to a Clinton = Hitler comment or diary that hasn't been hidden or deleted. Thank you.
My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total. Barbara Jordan 1974
by gchaucer2 on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:15:12 PM PDT
Link
We have no intention of prosecuting Rush Limbaugh because lying through your teeth and being stupid isn't a crime.
by The Baculum King on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:54:07 PM PDT
That in the link you provided that the author of the comment said that Hillary is in no way as bad as Hitler et al, but that the tactics of the Hillary campaign's blame the opposition and claim to be the victim is along the same lines as those used by those listed evildoers? The author said that, not me. But I do want to thank you for putting in the link, I can't keep up with all the comments from both sides. So, really, thank you for giving me the chance. : )
by The Destroying Angel on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:43:00 PM PDT
http://www.dailykos.com/...
and from Obamablog
http://my.barackobama.com/...
and oops, here come another one!
Ah, can't you feel the love!
by tony the American Mutt on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:56:42 PM PDT
I didn't see anything in reference to Hillary being Hitler, or Hitlery in the first to links, but the third is as disgusting as when the Repugs threw that out with a t-shirt showing her with the Hitler moustach. Totally out of line. I did not vote for her, but Hitlary? No, that is not right.
by The Destroying Angel on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:46:48 PM PDT
unlike most at dkos I prefer to supply the surrounding comments so you can judge fairly
by tony the American Mutt on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:49:32 PM PDT
Thanks for leaving the surrounding ones. I did try to read all the ones around where it took me.
by The Destroying Angel on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:52:14 PM PDT
They can't beat Obama, so they build straw men in the hope of beating them instead.
The whiners strike sure has made this a better place.
by Pragmatic Left on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:17:11 PM PDT
then shut-up
by tony the American Mutt on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:42:58 PM PDT
I rest my case.
by Pragmatic Left on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:08:08 PM PDT
by Tackle on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 06:47:17 PM PDT
We are the ones we've been waiting for.
by Same As It Ever Was on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 04:34:48 AM PDT
Not yet housebroken.
by Bluesman48 on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:18:19 PM PDT
would be acknowledging that she could inspire and move people and get people agitated for her cause. The only people that she gets agitated are those who are against her. She has very little charisma.
John McCain's Something for Everyone Plan: Military draft for youth, SS benefit cuts for elderly, Middle Class destruction, stock market plunge for wealthy.
by IhateBush on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:18:34 PM PDT
look up
by tony the American Mutt on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:43:20 PM PDT
You, sir, are a like a Hitler burrito, wrapped in a Mao fajita, with low-sodium Stalin sauce.| Strategy08.
by turneresq on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:19:24 PM PDT
and here is one where she is Nero, how special! http://www.dailykos.com/...
took 10 minutes using the search function, but hey, keep on shrieking and denying reality...
by tony the American Mutt on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:39:07 PM PDT
and now they slink away without an apology. well no not funny, but typical of dkos these days...
by tony the American Mutt on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:02:25 PM PDT
Most all you do is bash dKos and many of it's users, why do you stick around tony?
Because I won't trade humanity for patriotism!
by Drewid on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:18:35 PM PDT
Just for the record, I wasn't claiming that we don't have our share of this stuff here.
Nevertheless, I honestly believe MyDD has become much worse about this stuff right now than we have.
Just my opinion.
Out of the night that covers me, Black as the Pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul.
by Descrates on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:19:46 PM PDT
n, I mean, other than your confidence that your "side" is right and righteous?
Do you know anybody at MyDD who got an email AT HOME like this:
Don't kid yourself, either you are a racist (Indiana?) or you are a water carrier for the corrupt Clintons. If the dailykos website isn't up to par for you, then don't read it you loser. Anyone who has ever been in advertising can tell you this photo was altered. (and anyone with a human brain). And what about the photo they circulated last week of him in Africa? Let me tell you a secret you dumb fuck, if Billary steals this election McBush wins. You fucking fool.
Don't kid yourself, either you are a racist (Indiana?) or you are a water carrier for the corrupt Clintons. If the dailykos website isn't up to par for you, then don't read it you loser. Anyone who has ever been in advertising can tell you this photo was altered. (and anyone with a human brain). And what about the photo they circulated last week of him in Africa?
Let me tell you a secret you dumb fuck, if Billary steals this election McBush wins. You fucking fool.
for writing a diary like this?
Done with politics for the night? Have a nice glass of wine with Two Days per Bottle.
by dhonig on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:57:10 PM PDT
has anyone there advocated outing opposing posters and then causing them violence in their private lives? as has happened here...
by tony the American Mutt on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 07:05:17 PM PDT
with less comments and traffic. Still dem, but mainly Clinton partisans.
by Drewid on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 07:52:37 PM PDT
is blue instead of orange.
by Drewid on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 08:06:22 PM PDT
to have someone here advocate violence against fellow dems. but hey, go ahead and hid this too, I know how hard it is to admit when your fellow travellers are absolute nut-jobs. but really letting all fester in HC is unhealthy
by tony the American Mutt on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:52:39 AM PDT
You'd be happier and we would definitely be happier. It's a win-win situation.
42.
by SeattleLiberal on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 10:29:51 PM PDT
the asinine old coots and jerks back in the 60's with their 'Amurika love it or leave it' except for you it's 'dkos is mine mine mine go way you make me think!'
by tony the American Mutt on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:50:51 AM PDT
Let me say from the outset that I do not approve of people sending nastygrams to other site users based upon what they write here.
I'm sorry you experienced that.
I thought your diary was little more than apologetics, so I moved on. I tend not to hang out in HRC diaries unless they are probable trolls.
But, A lot of new users are engaging in politics lately. Many are not inclined to follow rules.
Wouldn't it be better to set a standard and enforce it?
Tony has broken all standards of behavoir here. Thus, most of us think he needs to go for his continuous attacks on other users.
It's late. Just putting out a feeler.
We have become what they fear.
by tecampbell on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 11:12:33 PM PDT
Wouldn't it be better to set a standard and enforce it? Tony has broken all standards of behavoir here. Thus, most of us think he needs to go for his continuous attacks on other users. It's late. Just putting out a feeler.
I think it is either too late for that, because rules are not being enforced elsewhere, or too early for that, because all "enforcement," including community enforcement through HRs, has been one way and hence, non-credible.
When all the "enforcement" goes only one way, that is not rules. That is gang behavior.
Enforcem them against Tony after you enforce them against seven people who HR'd a Tip Jar.
Enforce them against Tony after you enforce them for HR'ing a personal opinion about a television personality.
Enforce them against Tony after you enforce them for people who equate "troll diary" with "anything not beamingly positive about Obama"."
Enforce them against Tony after you enforce them for somebody using HRs to settle a personal vendetta, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, and most of all, HERE.
Enforce them against Tony after you enforce them for HRs unrelated to the comment, but just intended to drive away long-time users.
See what I mean?
by dhonig on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 04:31:26 AM PDT
You wrote a controversial diary and took some heat. Although I wouldn't have HR'd your tip jar, it is common practice. The other HR's were indeed unjustified and were rightly uprated.
How does that equate to Tony's endless attacks and conspiracy theories on at least a dozen other Trusted Users over the past four months or so?
It doesn't.
by tecampbell on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:55:02 AM PDT
before now. That, really, is the point.
I, too, have been a TU for quite a long time. My point is simple- when I see demands to enforce the rules NO MATTER WHAT CANDIDATE A PERSON SUPPORTS, I will view the demand with credibility. Until then, it's just more Lord of the Flies.
by dhonig on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 07:58:56 AM PDT
I've tried to be fair over the past months and have taken a few unfair HR's of my own from Hillary supporters.
Nevertheless, be careful which mutts you sleep with. Some bring fleas.
by tecampbell on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:09:21 AM PDT
It's been common practice ever since I got TU status nearly four years ago. Even Hunter notes it's common practice:
There are other conventions that the community has adopted, such as negatively rating a diarist's "tip jar" to indicate that they think the whole diary needs to be deleted...
Michael Musing's musings
by musing85 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:26:22 AM PDT
Link please? I haven't seen anywhere near that level of vitriol around these parts.
The Republican Party is neither pro-republic nor pro-party. Discuss!
by Nathaniel Ament Stone on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:19:39 PM PDT
by tony the American Mutt on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:39:18 PM PDT
Id like to see a similar comment/diary that gained traction here.
If I had TR status I think this would be my first use, unless examples can be shown.
I am from MN and if you think our caucuses are undemocratic I have a lake to introduce you to.
by edgeways on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:20:38 PM PDT
I could. But I want his stupidity here on display.
Waiting... for the evidence.
We need not think alike to love alike -- Ferenc Dávid
by ogre on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:26:41 PM PDT
by tony the American Mutt on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:39:48 PM PDT
at least. Looking through them they don't lead to much, though
One was a reply to someone coyly equating Obama supporters to Rank and File Nazi supporters.
One was made fun of and pretty much ignored for the mindlessness it was.
One talks about Mussolini and results in the absence of meaning
Nero... well, eh, I suppose you can make some sort of argument there but it was awfully convoluted.
So, thanks for the links but they look to be pretty weak sauce overall.
cheers
by edgeways on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:54:23 PM PDT
and that's a comparison that she and her campaign have been bringing up (at least) since Jan 2007.
John McCain loves to suck on sausage with Lindsey Graham.
by The Dead Man on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:23:57 PM PDT
But, as far as I recall, Margaret Thatcher didn't declare war against another country by mistake.
by Bush Bites on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:28:52 PM PDT
the Falkland Islands dispute is pretty dodgy overall.
by edgeways on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:56:35 PM PDT
to sell off enough of Britain's publicly owned resources to buck up the economy.
John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.
by Seneca Doane on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:28:16 PM PDT
with a meaningless country. Remember the Fallkin Islands?
by kanuk on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:28:49 PM PDT
But Ms. Thatcher did declare war against the Faulkland Islands.
by The Destroying Angel on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:50:49 PM PDT
The war was with Argentina, after its military regime had invaded the Falkland Islands for their own domestic political reasons (God knows there really wasn't much of a reason for anyone to fight over the Falklands). Britain didn't start that incident.
by pletzs on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:59:59 PM PDT
I forgot about that! I got mixed up. : )
by The Destroying Angel on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 06:04:41 PM PDT
Your opinion of her politics aside, Thatcher was a true trail blazer, a woman who earned an advanced degree in chemistry in the 1950s at Oxford. That's a little tougher road to hoe than going to a women's college and majoring in political science in the 1960s.
Thatcher's husband also did not precede her to the prime ministry.
by pletzs on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:57:30 PM PDT
was it worth it?
</p.
by The Dead Man on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:02:45 AM PDT
And if you can't provide one, I suggest you retract your statement.
by mnguy66 on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:25:17 PM PDT
then I suggest you bite my ass
by tony the American Mutt on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:40:12 PM PDT
assholes use "Hitlery" in posts and get reamed for it. Those posts get hidden.
Anyone who used it in a diary probably got it summarily removed by the admins.
You are full of shit.
by ogre on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:25:49 PM PDT
sadly...
by tony the American Mutt on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:42:02 PM PDT
until you go and read the diaries you cite--
one is hidden and the rest mock those who would compare Clinton to Hitler.
Ogre's point stands.
One cannot simultaneously uphold and wipe his ass with the Constitution.
by Dewey Kneadleeders on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:16:58 PM PDT
Just depends on how deeply you want to search (we're a much bigger site than MyDD)
In addition, here's Clinton as Stalin. Here's Clinton wishing we were in Nazi Germany.
Either way, there are nutty people all over - MyDD certainly doesn't have the monopoly. And while I'm glad the diarist added the update (very classy), I wish s/he would change the title, as well. It'd be like going through dkos' hidden comments and saying "Look what dkos is saying", etc.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
by pico on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:27:51 PM PDT
the Clinton-as-Stalin comment received 32 recs. That's something to consider.
by pico on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:29:32 PM PDT
needs context.
And now, like Stalin, HRC is pursuing a scorched earth policy. Anything to win.
It's not suggesting that Hillary is analogous to Stalin and would commit terrible crimes against humanity. It's referencing the anti-Nazi campaign of WWII, where the Soviets, under Stalin, denied the Nazis any cover, resources, or food that they could--scorching the earth. It's proposition is that Hillary's campaign is willing to burn over the electoral ground that ANY Democrat will need to win in November, that in essence, she's willing to "poison the well" if she can't have it.
by ogre on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 08:02:13 PM PDT
You're joking, right?
A campaign that disregards voters and makes what some people consider racist dog-whistle comments = forced starvation of enemy combatants, and we'll specifically pick the time it was done by a genocidal maniac.
Yeah, that's just a harmless comparison. A little simile, right?
In fact, it's the kind of idiocy that the author of the Obama=Hitler diary was mocking in the first place. If you noticed - because the majority of people who posted their protestations here didn't - the supposedly offensive MyDD diary was poking holes in this idea that comparing a candidate to a mass murderer is harmless. It was snark, and it was trying to make a point. You basically fell into the very behavior it was criticizing.
Comparisons of Obama/Clinton to Hitler are no more the norm here than they are at MyDD. But they do happen, and depending on how riled up the community is, they sometimes get a free pass. When I first started coming to dkos, the word "bitch" was considered unacceptable even for hated Republicans - now it sometimes lands you in hidden comments, and it sometimes lands you a ton of recs and well-wishes.
In my ideal world, we'd all be more consistent about slapping down these kinds of comments. But we're not, and that's one of the reasons I don't like seeing tony slapped with zeroes for what's as fair a comment about the climate here as the diarist's about MyDD.
But even better: we have to stop this relentless cherry-picking just to find the worst in each other. It's not helping anyone.
by pico on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 02:08:50 AM PDT
It's inflammatory.
But in the larger context of the discussion about how Obama supporters are happily calling Hillary horrible names, it's thin.
Should have been trolled. But as you observe, the sewers have backed up. It's lamentable--and we know it happens during presidential primary season here. It's worse this year -- I think -- because there are a hell of a lot more people dropping... stuff.... into the sewers.
by ogre on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:58:18 AM PDT
by pico on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 11:35:12 AM PDT
hidden since i am not a TU I cannot see HC's, now a good possibility is the cowards and intellectually dishonest ones here are now going back and hiding them after being shown what liars they are.
by tony the American Mutt on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:55:49 PM PDT
None of us can rec or hide after a 24 hour period (might be less, but I think that's the window).
by ogre on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 07:41:55 PM PDT
In one the use of the term is in a QUOTE from Free Republic.
The horror.
In another, it's a comment on the fact that GOP Clinton haters use the terms Hitlery and Billary, and talks about the hate...
Pure, unmitigated DKos Clinton hatred there.
I looked at a third and... no longer recall the details, as I didn't find it to be an "approving" use of the term.
You pulled up 8 citations, and the most recent was over a month ago.
I won't suggest that there's never been a diary that's used the term in an 'approving' manner. But there are troll diaries here constantly....
Still, I'll just repeat that the term wasn't used in a diary in the last month... and the proposition that it's a DKos Obama supporter norm, that it's approved of an accepted... is simply bullshit.
I've trolledhidden other Obama supporters for noxious remarks, and if I'd seen that one, I'd have called on others to do so. And I'm here a lot more than I should be, so...
by ogre on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 07:58:31 PM PDT
at least one relatively recent diary. But the title may have gotten redacted.
by musing85 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:15:28 AM PDT
can't be hidden by users.
But posts can.
I went and rooted through the hidden comments (ick, I hate doing that), and did find uses. Hidden. Hidden. Hidden.
Plenty of comments from people I know are Obama supporters rejecting and denouncing the term and generally being pissed off that anyone uses it here.
I'm not saying you haven't seen it.
I'm not even saying that every nasty comment got hunted down and stomped out of existence. People only get 5 donuts a day.... But I found plenty of examples in March where they've been flushed by the community.
I think you're in the position of seeing what you "want" to see--no one sees X until it's brought to their attention, or they have one and suddenly, they're everywhere. But they're not.
by ogre on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 08:38:43 PM PDT
Lets have many many links to these many many examples of what you claim.
by TMP on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:36:53 PM PDT
by tony the American Mutt on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 04:42:15 PM PDT
try again.
by SeattleLiberal on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 10:24:15 PM PDT
no reason for this particular comment to be hidden. I linked above to some pretty vile comments about Clinton, so I think tony's point stands. Doubly so since the offensive diary at MyDD was deleted.
At any rate, I don't think picking out the worst of what each community has to offer is productive. Isn't that what FOX did re: dailykos?
by pico on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:31:11 PM PDT
Hasn't contributed much of substance or worth in months, spends most of his time being a pissy whiner since he lost ratings ability.
by musing85 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:13:04 AM PDT
I was getting a little frustrated with the conversation above, though. Fair enough.
by pico on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:32:34 PM PDT
google "Hitlery site:dailykos.com" and you get 130 hits. Also, the commenter has demonstrated such comments below. Also, the diarist at MyDD is an OBAMA SUPPORTER, who was trying to make a point.
The abusive HR use, which is nothing but a way to attack Clinton supporters, needs to stop. Seriously, folks, if you did not read "Lord of the Flies," now is the time. Your behavior is eerily familiar.
by dhonig on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 05:54:27 PM PDT
seriously. I'm not trying to pick a fight here but saying there are 130 hits implies that there are 130 instances of kos folks calling her that. not true.
a sampling of the top hits you use as proof:
"Hitlery" is not clever and it shows how Obama supporters have dragged ... If you want people to listen to you, then you need to drop this "Hitlery" crap. ...
ConWebWatch proves otherwise, and they don't even mention Limbaugh's use of "Hitlery".
take to calling her by the beloved right-wing nickname "Hitlery".
I'm not saying people don't do it but this isn't effective "proof". As many of those hits are people (some of them Obama folks) raising hell about the use of the term. I personally think calling her Hitlery is total crap- its shitty and offensive.
I do agree with you about the misuse of HRs btw. I don't think it deserves it.
by goldbirdy on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 06:49:15 PM PDT
and I actually think you make MY point, given that the dairy to which this diary refers was also roundly castigated at MyDD, just as in your first example attempting to refute my point.
by dhonig on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 07:37:25 PM PDT
sometime I feel like people confuse making points with scoring points.
I was just trying to say that not all Obama supporters think its ok to call her that (as I said I don't). That people on this very site defend her, whether she is their pick or not.
My point was that your example made it seem like all 130 "hitlery" references on kos were of people calling her that. Some of those hits were people defending her.
My goodness man, I agreed with you on everything else. I commented above that I thought this diary was wrong, that the mydd post was made by an Obama supporter.
by goldbirdy on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 08:10:45 PM PDT
and my apologies for being obstreperous.
by dhonig on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 03:16:43 AM PDT
and if anyone is keeping score, you get a point for making me look obstreperous up.
:)
by goldbirdy on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:01:47 AM PDT
Should've been gone months ago. He's TR-on-sight for a lot of TUs.
by musing85 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 10:12:02 AM PDT
wide narrow
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