that McCain doesn't want to be responsible for the deaths of those 23% via the exploding heads...

they do represent the community.  A fair number of them have no idea what that might mean.  It's no secret that I'm a bit fed up with the lack of respect and the lack of the outstanding news gathering that used to be done here, much less that the discussion threads we used to have are now impossible.  Worthy diaries with information and forward looking material are now ignored.  This place used to be two weeks ahead of the newspapers and two years or more ahead on policy and big picture trends and news.  Now all that gets shoert shrift and everything is reactive to what's on TV or in the newspapers.

ignore them.

about what the facts happen to be. Your "facts" may not be viewed as factual by another. To expect everyone to immediately accept your point of view as factual, without argument or question, meets the definition of hubris and arrogance.

[requisite dkos disclosure: not a Hillary supporter]

especially if they're my Obama-supporting peers and go over the line.  I'm not alone in that conscious habit.

Else, I just ignore folks when they're in gang-whack mode if the volume is overwhelming, knowing they'll calm down, eventually.

It's a tough job fighting almost pure emotions, of course.  Better to address their needs and get back to an actual dialog, I feel.

To that end . . .

clammyc's diary is good, stuff I've heard others say recently and certainly bears worthwhile repeating in a Recommended way, though I also feel there's a context missing here:

1. We've done all this before at DKos, even among Democratic supporters.  Brown vs. Hackett was almost a warmup exercise, for example.

2. Good-minded people have been so incredibly beaten over the past 7 years, emotionally and even financially, that there are naturally heightened sensitivities against ANYTHING which seems to minimize our chances for removing Republicans from the White House via this election.  Any candidate seen as knee-capping the other Dem with relation to the GE is not going to get an easy ride for doing so.

3. Both sides have some supporters who have settled into truly hardened positions, but many of the people here seem willing to debate with pride, assertiveness and open thinking for their candidate's positions.

4. The two campaigns have some philosophies and implementations which do not overlap in an evident fashion - points of exclusion vs. inclusion for voters and planks have been valid to debate among supporters, as have been feelings of various voters feeling ignored by one candidate vs. another

5. Issues of race and gender in this unique Democratic Presidential nomination run are running both underneath and in full view of all involved.  Without being addressed in constructive manners, I feel.  As Sen. Obama recently made open and plainly clear, these are areas not yet fully and deeply addressed across the entire nation - DKos may be a partial sampling of those issues still yet to be uncomfortable addressed in the USA, which further adds to built-in reflex attacks, defenses, etc. at a level so few people desire to grasp, let alone debate and find commonality upon.

So, great diary for hitting on the highest layer of what is occurring!

I'd prefer less anger at the community and more addressing of the issues which tend to tear us apart at these times, admittedly.

Or the "I could have had a V-8 Syndrome"

You know what its like when you set out to buy a new car and you finally can afford to get rid of the piece of junk you've been driving?

You might think you're ready to buy but then doubt sets in.Did I get a good deal? Did I buy the best car for my needs? Should I  have waited to get more fuel efficient model? Do I really like that color? It never ends.

We've had a great slate of candidates to choose from.Any one would be better than what we have running the country and what the Republicans have to offer.

Clinton and Obama have many good points to recommend them.They are both electable. All they need is our support.
We need to keep the GOP trashers from convincing us they aren't acceptable.

WE ARE THE DECIDERS. They need to stay out of our primaries and out of our business.
Let them try to convince everyone their candidate is better but doing something other than trashing ours.

Spend your energy on protecting your candidate from being sliced and diced by
the media.

Obama handled his business with Rev. Wright better than anyone could have hoped for.Hillary will come to terms with the Florida/Michigan delegate problem because she has to.

Meanwhile, stay cool and be excellent to one another.

hopefully someone high profile and relatively neutral like me calling it out will spurn others to do it as well.

give up for the good of... she wants to win.  If someone suggested that Obama give up when he thought he had a chance to win, what would you tell them?  Hillary is not a fool.  When they conclude they have lost, they will quit.  Until then, more damage is being done by supporters fighting than them competing.  

how she views the netroots.  But I am not talking about her.  I am talking about the attacks on her like the darkening of the Obama photo and the attacks on those who dared to ask whether there was any proof that itwas done intentionally, let alone by her campaign.

It used to be "verify, then report".  Now it is "report, who cares if it is true or verifiable"

So I rec'd this.  I'm no Clinton fan, for pretty much the same reasons as Markos.  However, I know the real enemies out there are much worse.  I was on a Politico message board today, and about puked at the bigotry, racism, and yes, fascism being spewed by commenters. It makes our primary wars seem like bean bag.

As far as the strike goes, such is the primary campaign.  Supporters gravitate to where other supporters are found.  In a race this close and intense, I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

You see, this is where pretty much every true-beliver on both sides have jumped the shark.

I've read Alegre's diaries and they are no more exaggerated and full of hyperbolee than most of Geekesque's diaries and yet because he says what you like to hear you give him a pass on whatever he says - no matter how much of a stretch it is.

I thought the netroots and the grassroots movements were going to hold all candidates to a high standard and push them to be better Democrats.  We haven't done that.  We've lined up in cheerleading squads {except those of us who would prefer to be coaches offering constructive criticism (gasp! oh no! no critiques allowed!) and encouragement where appropriate} and have taken to discourse that is no better than that of a couple of firing squads.

When Bush told me that the terrorist threat was "a struggle between good and evil", I thought he was a simple-minded idiot.  When people offer up the same strawman in the Obama v. Clinton contest - I think they are simple-minded.

Sorry, but this hyperbolic hand-wringing about the choice between these two centerist Democrats is a tempest in a teapot as far as I am concerned.

But carry on...

Obama supporters getting attacked and hunted down around here?

And just because one group may do it, that doesn't mean that ALL of her supporters do, or that the Obama supporters should.

We are better than that, right?

I stopped visiting Kos for a while.  Came back not too long ago and couldn't stomach Alegre's diaries.  At all.  They were hateful and spiteful and were almost always anti-Obama instead of pro-Clinton.  That made no sense to me.  Either promote your candidate by telling me why I should vote for him/her or move on.  Don't tear other candidates down.  I was on the fence, but her diaries, in part, helped me make my decision.

But maybe she was, by that point, already on her way out.  Perhaps she'd been driven to these types of diaries.  I'm not sure.  

Cheers.

Most of the diaries are pro-Clinton. There's a significant minority that are pro-Obama, now. People seem to mix less than you'd expect... Obama people on Obama diaries, Clinton people on Clinton diaries.

And there's way too much rudeness, and sadly, much too much comes from Obama supporters. Yes, an awful lot from Clinton supporters, but as an Obama supporter it bothers me when someone hijacks a thread with off-topic pro-Obama ranting (and it's never polite, when it's a hijacking). It doesn't reflect well on us, and I don't care how much provocation there is.

But it's a weird place now. I try to comment on both sides, but it's hard; the Obama threads are 90% Obama-is-great and the Clinton threads are 90% Clinton-supporter backslapping and mutual praise about how wonderful they are. It's worse than it is here, even at the most mutually-praising diaries.

Do you mean me?  Do you really mean me?  

I don't talk about politics on DKos much anymore.  I don't get the Obama love.  

This leaves me a choice: keep quiet about my thoughts here, or open myself to real misery here; being thought of as a cancer coming from within.

I'm with clammyc.  

that her diaries have become what they were.  But.....take the "darkening of the Obama photo".  Never proven to have been done, done intentionally or done by Clinton's campaign.  People who were in that line of business, including dday and dhonig cast doubt on whether this was done in conversion to YouTube or on purpose.

Yet, there was never anything other than an accusation, repeated by Markos on the front page, and no proof offered.

And then there are people like me who just try and keep people honest and accurate here but get attacked.

Even if you take out Alegre and others, it is still pretty inexcusable.

Cutting Obama off at the knees with that "Commander-in-chief threshold" shit really grated on me. I hate Republicans because of how they behave.  When a Democrat starts acting like a Republican--at the expense of another Democrat, no less--I just find that hard to take.

I agree with you lockstep except for your last sentence.

I don't know if I'll vote for Hillary if she's the nominee at this point. I can't see how she would get there without even more nastiness and nominee-by-coup, so that's one thing. And finally, while I can get past the Ferraro misstep and frantic spinning and desperation, I don't know if I can forgive her and her surrogates for the mocking and deriding of Obama supporters. That's something that Obama and his surrogates have not done and I never thought I'd see on this scale among Democrats. I find it disgusting, like watching an act of cannibalism.

If this is what a Progressive should do:

"Progressives realize the bigger picture. Progressives shouldn’t be eating their own."

then, by the action of her campaign, Hillary Clinton is not a Progressive. Ergo, criticizing Clinton is not eating one's own.

And as you quoted:

"you would think that Clinton, A DEMOCRAT, is the enemy"

Clinton IS the enemy. There has been a racist bent to her campaign that, due to its systematic and constant nature, ca