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The war is vain.
The deaths were because we fight for each other. Don't belittle us hornbeck.
"I would like to see less people go to church on Sunday and more people volunteering among the poor and hopeless"
by comeinpbrstreetgang on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:37:57 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
I would suggest it is better directed at those who's vanity placed them in harm's way.
by ek hornbeck on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:44:18 AM PDT
but that doesn't excuse you from posting patronizing crap like that.
Bush's vanity is similar to yours clucking away over the deaths of what you see as the deluded.
Like I said before, don't belittle the military. We have nothing to be ashamed of. Its the citizenry of this country who let Bush commit their troops to this war.
by comeinpbrstreetgang on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:48:26 AM PDT
they died for their brothers in arms.
I say they were put in harm's way by vain preening imperialists and that their sacrifice will not advance the interests or honor of the United States.
We do have something to be ashamed of- electing war criminals and torturing liars to positions of leadership when we should have known better.
Every American should be ashamed.
by ek hornbeck on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:02:10 AM PDT
learn that finally. This is the lead-in to tyranny our nation's founding fathers warned us about. Its about time we owe up to the fact that BushCo is sending our troops to battle in vain, or at his own personal whims. Tyranny wins in a complacent democracy because tyranny doesn't play by the rules others adhere to.
"Its a grave digger's song, Praising God and State. So the Nation can live, So we all can remain as cattle. They demand a sacrifice..." -Flipper
by Skid on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:31:37 AM PDT
.......so soon after the downfall of the criminal Nixon administration will be a dilemma over which the historians in the future will ponder. It also defies logic that this regime was voted back into power nearly two years after the start of the BHush/Cheney illegal Iraq war.
Much of the blame lies with the political naivite and ignorance of the American voter. Let's hope that the same type of thing doesn't happen in the coming general election
by calibpatriot on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 01:10:15 PM PDT
didn't/doesn't help matters any either. As a populus, we became comfortable and distracted, while little things were done under our noses or wrapped in patriotic bows. After a while, it all adds up.
by Skid on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 02:01:48 PM PDT
with one another.
by comeinpbrstreetgang on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 03:52:56 AM PDT
We know the difference between the military and the fools that keep sending them to fight in someone's else's civil war. Unfortunately, some people have to continue to hide their ego driven mistakes behind our brave soldiers who deserve much better. They certainly don't deserve to be led by buffoons like GWB & Company.
by trinite on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:09:03 AM PDT
by trinite on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:15:22 AM PDT
But lesson learned:
There is not victory the military can give us, that this administration can't turn into utter defeat.
by daulton on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:31:23 AM PDT
original post could be seen as belittling the military.
But this npost clears it up between us;
I say they were put in harm's way by vain preening imperialists and that their sacrifice will not advance the interests or honor of the United States. We do have something to be ashamed of- electing war criminals and torturing liars to positions of leadership when we should have known better.
by comeinpbrstreetgang on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 03:56:18 AM PDT
toward's the military in the original poster's words. There was nothing directed at the military in the words posted other than the fact that 4,000 are dead. You are really reaching here. The original poster was saying, I believe, that we have 4,000 dead soldiers because of the vanity of Bush & Friends.
by Katiebegood on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:17:00 AM PDT
but you are incorrect.
This by hornbeck;
I'm sorry, they died for vanity.
Could definitely be seen as patronizing and belittling.
This by hornbeck clears his intent up nicely;
by comeinpbrstreetgang on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 04:00:17 AM PDT
I do so on the basis of my friendship with a Capitan in the Army who served at Tal Afar
and a Marine Capitan who served in Anbar province.
Both are pissed as hell the the generals failed the junior officers and the troops on the professional technical side of war-fighting.
We needed more courage from the generals after the media and the Repugs beat us civilians in the street and the court of public opinion
us civilians failed on defending the Republic from fools and imperialists
but the generals could have lead a come back of common sense by standing up a little taller under fire--political fire that is
the troops supported each other
the generals protected their own careers (in large part)
Tax Paradigms, Feed Imaginations
by jhpdb on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:33:58 AM PDT
There is physical courage and moral courage.
Physical courage is the easy part yet it gets the most admiration. In the military I saw physical courage every day, it was an incredibly rare act that could qualify as moral courage.
The careerists were the worst.
by comeinpbrstreetgang on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 04:02:40 AM PDT
and sisters
for fighting for making it worth something
the death however was sadly for vainity
not soldiers vainity but BushCos
no one wants the chance to die for their buddies
they are willing to die for buddies in the middle something bigger that was supposed to be something better
it would belittle you more to accept that the troops simply go out to fight for each other
no small blame falls on the generals who failed the capitans and lts and troops
for failing to stand up to Rummy, Bushy and Cheney
and make this somehow viable or at least salvageable
and a larger fault lies with all of us for letting our Republic get so out of hand that we can't stop something a vast, long-lasting majority oppose
by jhpdb on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:24:55 AM PDT
difference. And bless them. They deserved better.
Having credibility when making an argument is the straightest path to persuasion.
by SpamNunn on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:33:21 AM PDT
are supposed to fight for the U.S.A. If the Bushies put you there to "fight for each other" then the Iraq invasion is not only illegal and pointless, but highly immoral from the standpoint of the soldier put into battle for no god national defense. The basic training today stresses that you are warriors, and your first allegiance is to your brother and sister warriors. But this divorces armed service from patriotism and renders the volunteer army a separate class of citizens. This mindset, which is encouraged and fostered by the Pentagon is an extraordinarily dangerous and subversive situation, and leaves the armed forces cut off from the larger society. If you only fight for your comrades, then you justify any invasion, and any order from you commanders, legal or not. Be wary of this.
Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.
by StrayCat on Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:55:12 AM PDT
Stray cat your wits must be astray.
why the hell do you fight for each other. You are supposed to fight for the USA.
This mindset, which is encouraged and fostered by the Pentagon is an extraordinarily dangerous and subversive situation, and leaves the armed forces cut off from the larger society
I will point at another group that actively encourages the divoce between military and society.
Society itself. Society doesn't want to see the ugliness it supports through its votes or its apathy. The average American clucks over the death of another Marine or troop and then clicks over to American Idol. The negative stereotyping of the military in most popular culture isn't lost on us. Now add in job discrimination and alienation by neighbors and people who think you may have just seen too much and bingo....divorce.
If you only fight for your comrades, then you justify any invasion, and any order from you commanders, legal or not. Be wary of this.
This is inherently untrue. Blind patriotism is the more dangerous component in these scenarios. If you are a warrior who puts his ass and the ass next to him on a higher priority than the words of some detached player you are much more likely to call bullshit on orders that don't have a military or legal basis.
I agree that there is a growing rift between the military and society. If you want it fixed support a draft and some form of universal service. Then perhaps arguments like yours would be made from a better position of understanding.
by comeinpbrstreetgang on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 04:18:38 AM PDT
for over 30 years. My plan would require every person in the July of the year they turn 18 to enter service, in 4 separate quarters. 1st, military training, 2nd, community service in areas of conservation, health and social care, construction and other areas of endeavor. 3rd, government service as interns, clerks, and other jobs in the various state and federal governments, and 4th, education in civics, language and history. Whether this would be over one year or two is a question. There would be no exceptions for any reason, and no person would be excluded for reasons of disability, political or social connections or hardship. these quarters can be rotated, and young people cab be assigned to areas of the country different from where they grew up. However, while I understand your points in your comment, I still hold strongly to the opinion that creating a class of Helots, in the Spartan mode is an extremely dangerous and negative development for our country.
by StrayCat on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 07:45:20 AM PDT
wide narrow
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