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  •  if you're going to make such charges (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dconrad

    back them up with links

    Here's the truth, from the Detroit Free Press, a local paper with direct reporting from the Michigan legislature:

    the June 3 do-over — proposed last week by a group of state party leaders — died Thursday in the state Senate, where opposition from backers of Illinois Sen. Barack Obama kept the issue from even coming up for a vote.

    New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton forcefully backed the proposal, even taking a break from her national campaign schedule to come to Detroit on Wednesday to challenge Obama to endorse it and the state Legislature to enact it. On Thursday, Clinton’s campaign said "there will be implications for Democrats in the general election" if Michigan’s delegates aren’t seated based on the will of state voters.

    But in the heartless logic of hardball politics, Clinton’s embrace of the Michigan do-over primary made it less attractive to Obama. His campaign never took a formal position on the proposal, but cited a litany of potential problems, including the exclusion of some Democratic voters who participated in the Republican primary Jan. 15, the propriety of using private funds to pay for a government-administered election and the burden the June 3 election would place on the people who run elections for counties and cities.

    The Associated Press reported that Obama was questioned at a campaign stop Thursday in Charleston, W.Va., by Jeff Lynch, 48, of Mount Pleasant.

    "When am I going to get to vote for you in Michigan?" Lynch asked.

    "Probably in the general election," Obama replied. "A redo vote is very complicated."

    link

    •  Kept a particular proposal from coming up (4+ / 0-)

      for a vote.  Not any and all re-vote plans.

      Of course, why go to the legislature when you can just do what the Michigan Democratic Party does every year and hold a caucus?

      WARNING: There is a high probability that the preceding comment is snark. Use your best judgment (hopefully better than Sen. Clinton's or Sen. McCain's).

      by Anarchofascist on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 01:01:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Proves my point exactly. (3+ / 0-)

      Clinton has blocked tons of proposals, too.  Barack has only blocked the one, which I describe -- the one option that is viciously unfair, undemocratic, and unconstitional.

      "The majority of a single vote [is] as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

      by cartwrightdale on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 01:23:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  as usual, facts are not your friend (0+ / 0-)

        Hillary just wants a primary -- a free and fair vote, by secret ballot, and without imposing the poll tax type cost of spending hours at a polling place to make your vote count. And without the post vote craziness we're seeing in TX -- voting shouldn't resemble rebounding a basketball, with sharp elbows required.

        The disqualification of those who voted republican come s from the DNC, not from Hillary's proposal.

        DNC Rule 2E provides: "No person shall participate or vote in the nominating process for a Democratic presidential candidate who also participates in the nominating process of any other party for the corresponding elections."

        It's Howard Dean, not Hillary Clinton, who you should complain to.

        The truth is that Obama and Edwards pushed for their supporters to vote "uncommitted" and many of them came to the polling place to do just that -- 40% of those who voted voted uncommitted.

        •  The DNC can overrule 2E (0+ / 0-)

          It's Hillary insisting it be kept in place, but obviously the point of a "revote" is that the first round didn't count.  So, clearly, 2E should not apply.  Obama is absolutely right to stop Hillary's "my way or nothing" sham election.

          40% of those who voted in the Democratic primary voted uncommitted.  That doesn't measure how many people voted in the Republican primary instead (or tried to write in Obama, Edwards, Richardson, etc., and therefore had their ballot invalidated.)  It is rather amazing that uncommitted did so well -- clearly, if Edwards, Obama, and others had been on the ballot, their cumulative total would have been a good 15-20% higher (the percentage of people estimated to have crossed over instead.)

          Either way, it doesn't matter -- the Michigan constitution won't allow Hillary's way.  The courts have ruled on this.  What Hillary wanted to do was clearly illegal.  Illegal.  There was no way the Michigan courts would allow the Democratic party to receive the lists of how everyone voted (which would be necessary for the DNC to know who to exclude).  And it had nothing to do with Obama supporters or Obama's lawyers -- there weren't even party to the lawsuit.  It was an ACLU issue.  

          So, by definition, Hillary does not want a fair, nor secret ballot.  She wants the lists of how everyone voted the last time, so they can systematically exclude those of us who voted in the Republican primary instead (since we weren't allowed to vote for our own candidate.)  

          Obama supported (and still does) a revote without restrictions, or a caucus, or a 50/50 split, or any of a number of other, fairer options.  Hillary won't allow it.  She tied her hopes to the only option which stacked the deck in her favor, and the courts rightfully said "uh, no."  Now rather than work to find a fair way of doing the elections, she's publicly lying about Obama's stance.  

          What, exactly, more do you need before you realize that Hillary Clinton is simply unfit to be President of the United States?

          "The majority of a single vote [is] as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

          by cartwrightdale on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 02:56:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  provide a link (0+ / 0-)

            to support your claim that Hillary opposes waiving that rule

            •  It's simple (0+ / 0-)

              Obama is on record (over and over and over again) stating "we're going to abide by whatever the Democratic National Committee determines is fair", and the DNC has yet to decide something that's fair.  Clinton's peeps TRIED to do the "only people who voted for me get to vote" thing, but was shut down in the courts.  (Again, not by Obama.)  

              Therefore, Hillary must oppose waiving the rule, since Obama's said he'd be happy with a revote that didn't have that rule.  Q.E.D.

              "The majority of a single vote [is] as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

              by cartwrightdale on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 04:04:12 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Q.E.D. (0+ / 0-)

                "provide a link"

                "It's true because I say it is. Q.E.D."

                Hilarious.

                Feed the babies who don't have enough to eat / Shoe the children with no shoes on their feet / House the people living in the street / Oh, there's a solution

                by dconrad on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 09:01:50 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Clinton has blocked tons of proposals (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        cartwrightdale

        Exactly. Her attitude is, "either my way, or the highway".

        If I were running in this election, I'd be for change too. - George W. Bush

        by William Domingo on Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 03:19:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Dawson Bell is a dubious news source (0+ / 0-)

      This is the same dude who manufactured the "Dems buying iPods to every Michigan K12 student" story, contrary to what was actually said.  

      The reality is that putting it up for a vote would've just given Republicans more ammo, since it screwed up May school elections.  It didn't help that Hillary coming in like she was buying the election scared uncommitted Dems.  The unofficial headcount was -- 14 of 17 Democratic state senators were against.  

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