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Sex, Gender & Rock-n-Roll...
...so anything else going on today?
...here's a place to escape or wait it out.
click to learn about Single Payer Health Care
by DrSteveB on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:28:26 AM PDT
I'm not sure why, but humans seem to have a lot of duals, or pairs of things, eyes, ears, nostrils, arms, legs, feet, hands, lungs, balls, breasts, sides of the brain; its a long list if you get into detail.
Some are paired opposites such as body and mind. If you think of that as reflected by what you say and what you think, is it possible we extend that concept of duals into our body language.
I'm curious if when we describe gender as what sex we are, male or female, and sex as related to things of the body, balls or breasts, we aren't leaving out things of the mind and the way it directs us to act.
Might not we better lable a person with a fetish for guns and knives, black camo dyed wetsuits and things that go bang, homoaggressive, rather than homosexual?
While the most obvious manifestation of transgender may be appearance, I'd be interested to know if there is way that a person's mind manifests transgender, or whether its a hormonal thing, maybe linked to levels of nerve hormones like norepinepherine and seretonin.
Then I'd be curious if there are environmental influences, significant other and peer group pressures, can your gender be developed by social expectations. Is it to some degree all about labeling.
Live Free or Die --- Investigate, Impeach, Incarcerate
by rktect on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:52:52 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
a fabulous essay called "Axiomatic" (her introduction to her book Epistemology of the Closet) that explores (among other things) that idea-- that people are distinguished by so many things and preferences, are so complicated- gender is only one of them. If you don't know her body of work around queer/gender studies, you should check it out.
by concernedamerican on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 04:15:39 AM PDT
and to add for folks with an interest in Sex and Gender and Society, I'd like to add the following:
*Susan Sontag *Paula Gunn Allen *Simone de Beauvoir *Susan Bordo *Judith Butler *Helene Cixous *Sandra M. Gilbert *Susan Gubar *Donna Haraway *Annette Kolodny *Laura Mulvey *Adrienne Rich *Jane Tompkins *Monique Wittig *and of course, Virginia Woolf
It looks just like a Telefunken U47...you'll love it! - with leather...?
by Jeffersonian Democrat on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 04:44:04 AM PDT
with transgender reading in particular:
Leslie Feinberg Transgender Warriors Kate Bornstein Gender Outlaw and a website that will give you all the sources and bibliography you might ever want for transgender/genderqueer thinking:
http://www.bcholmes.org/...
by concernedamerican on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 04:59:16 AM PDT
In the back, in the group photo taken when he gave a talk at the U of M.
Been around a long time.
If honesty were suddenly introduced into American life, the whole system would collapse - George Carlin
by brenda on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:24:08 AM PDT
She seriously rocks. Met her once in Toronto. Cool, bright lady.
Michele Bachmann is a manipulative homophobe
by Transactivist on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:57:05 AM PDT
Needed that list months ago for a school project. If I ever do anything more with the thing, and I'm going to, that research list should come in handy.
by Cassandra Waites on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 11:42:36 AM PDT
I read it maybe 15 years ago and thought it was one of the most powerful memoirs I had ever read. I even emailed Kate Bornstein just to thank her. (She was very gracious.)
Later on when someone I knew was having gender reassignment I found a copy and gave it to her. She loved it too.
It's a great book even if you are fine with the parts you were born with.
Gordon Smith must go.
by vard on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 12:40:26 PM PDT
in the last 18 years since I started in Women's Studies as an undergraduate.
An American Abroad for Barack Obama
by SneakySnu on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 05:21:40 AM PDT
quite a few, that is just a sampling, as you know. But they are the biggies (and I love the late Susan S. and Judith)
Please post more contemporaries, I'd be interested myself.
by Jeffersonian Democrat on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 05:24:25 AM PDT
is good, especially for background on "gender nonconformity" in children, intersexuality, the range of human sex & gender expression. It's not a difficult book in academic terms (not jargony), but it is a hard read, I think - some of the stories are gut-wrenching.
I like Judith Butler's Undoing Gender better than probably any of her other writing on the subject. Sedgwick is always a favorite. I also love Elspeth Probyn - Outside Belongings is my fave, although she is probably better known for Sexing the Self.
Online, I particularly like the writing of Jim Sinclair, who is also a favorite of autistic advocate of mine. One of my favorite pieces describes the difficulties of talking about intersexuality as analogous to explaining human sexuality to a snail.
I appreciate the range of choices in this poll. It's rare to see the acknowledgment that both "sex" and "gender" have more gradations than are generally recognized.
Yowza!
by thisniss on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:02:38 AM PDT
hadn't heard of Burke before. But before our unfortunate miscarriage, I was adamant with my partner that any daughter of mine would have legos, chem sets, microscopes, my reading of fairytales (my personal academic interest) and playmobile and not only Barbies. Though I approved of more old-fashioned dolls and stuffed animals for creativity and play-acting.
This book sounds good for that, thanks.
by Jeffersonian Democrat on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:16:30 AM PDT
First of all, I'm really sorry for your loss. Miscarriage a terrible thing, and people don't realize how much the loss hurts, no matter how far along the pregnancy was. They also tend to say stupid things that minimize your experience while trying to be helpful (i.e. you can always get pregnant again. True, but how the hell does that help right now?)
About the boy/girl thing. I am a proud feminist humiliatingly re-educated about gender by the experience of having first a girl and then a boy. Up until I had two of these social science experiments crawling around my house, I was 100% convinced that gender was almost completely socially constructed.
by MadLibrarian on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 09:48:13 AM PDT
and kindness.
Yes, one day, I'll have an experiment myself just to prove what an idiot I am
by Jeffersonian Democrat on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 09:51:24 AM PDT
and was shocked (& a bit appalled) that they preferred their dollies to trucks-- the only time they liked said vehicles was when their dollies needed rides! They were both very good skaters at very young ages, so I signed them right up for hockey. They hated it-- not a competitive bone in either of their bodies. However, just making stereotypical "boy toys" and activities available to girls says something to them, I believe. The younger one has come to love basketball & softball, as well as dance & theatre, and really works at them. I'm not sure if she's developed any more competitive bones, or if it's kind of a personal best she's interested in. The older one joined a cross-country ski team, and even though she's not fast yet, and the youngest member of the team, she stuck with it all season, and was justifiably proud about that.
One of them is a teenager, the other will soon be, and I have to say, they are able to deconstruct sex roles with the best of 'em.
by thorn in your side on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 10:29:20 AM PDT
I moved to Northern Germany and haven't had the chance to use my skiis in two years, they're in the cellar.
Global warming, dontcha know
enjoy it while it last....
But if kids come, I will support whatever they wish because I believe success in life is where the passion lies, no matter what it is.
It was that way for me - I loved fairy tales and Tolkien and now teach old English and Germanic heroic epic at times.
by Jeffersonian Democrat on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 10:46:57 AM PDT
I hadn't even heard of it before college, but when a dorm-mate talked me into renting a pair of skiis, and going out with her, I was absolutely hooked. The man I eventually married wasn't all that interested in me until we happened to be skiing at the same place, and I kept up with him on the trails. we finally had enough snow in Minnesota this year, not to have to drive for hours in order to ski, after a global-warming drought of about 20 years. I tell my kids to enjoy it this year, because we may never see it again.
But, yeah, passion is the key-- makes life so fun, to see what develops...
by thorn in your side on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 11:51:59 AM PDT
I was determined he would be raised to play with dolls and the toy kitchen as much as with trucks.
Then he developed a fascination for anything with wheels. Sigh.
by auroraborealis on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 11:20:35 AM PDT
A couple of the books that I've read recently have jumped to the top of my personal list. The Riddle of Gender by Deborah Rudacille is really good. Whipping Girl by Julia Serano is amazing. Smart and contemporary. I'm reading it a second time, just because I think her writing deserved it.
by BethanyAnne on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 12:29:14 PM PDT
Never took one of her classes, unfortunately.
Proud to live in a Blue State!
by Sister Havana on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 01:57:53 PM PDT
and binary opposition in college. And like any good geek, I put it online!
Binary Opposition
Sex and gender are different things. I could have created a lot more categories than in the poll:
You have at least three variables (could be a lot more): sex, gender, and sexual orientation
Sex (Genetic): Male xy Female xx Supermale xyy Klinefelter Male xxy Turners Syndrome Female x
Gender: Man Woman Some mix Switch
Sexual orientation: gay straight bi beastiality
etc...
So mix these all together and tell me how many variables you come up with.
Flee fro the prees and dwelle in sothfastnesse.
by mismolly on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 09:13:00 AM PDT
humans seem to have a lot of duals, or pairs of things, eyes, ears, nostrils, arms, legs, feet, hands, lungs, balls, breasts, sides of the brain; its a long list if you get into detail.
Not me, I'm female! LOL!
Don't miss my blog! "We are all New Orleans now."--Barbara O'Brien Geauxbama!
by Louisiana 1976 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:31:13 AM PDT
bilateral symmetry. Our body is built by cells dividing, and doing different things after dividing. The simplest way to make a body is for the two cells to do the same thing, but mirror-opposite of its sister cell--because the axis of division defines a "direction" the cell can easily sense.
The same underlying cause is responsible for our recognizing pairs in the world around us: two is the next number after one. A cell is a cell; to make more, the simplest thing to do is make two. An idea is an idea; the simplest way to take a more complex view of the world is to subdivide that idea into two parts. Mind/body, left/right, up/down, in/out. Same thing with sex: there are plenty of bacteria that simply divide asexually, but animals (and plants, and fungi) do something more complex. The simplest thing we could do is to have two sexes; it was advantageous, so we do. Three (or four) sexes might provide an even bigger advantage, but it is even more complex and therefore a harder system to maintain. Apparently, three or four sexes simply aren't worth the trouble at a biological level.
Honesty is still the best policy.
by oscarsdad on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 12:31:28 PM PDT
Lets allow that the cell itself is not bilateral and that the chosen axis of division can put different components in adjacency. Perhaps there may be more to it than just that the material is doubled? Can one axis or direction be dominent over another in the number of divisions it governs to the extent that it affects the geneetics? What does account for there being xy, xx, xyy, xxy, and x as mentioned above?
by rktect on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:46:04 PM PDT
For not confusing "sex" with "gender".
The increasing misuse of "gender" for "sex" has become irritating.
It is the folly of youth to think they can change the world; it is the folly of old age not to try. -- Winston Churchill
by penguins4peace on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:57:01 AM PDT
Sex is what your underoos are covering.
In a pun-intended nutshell...
No longer a Grand Party. Just an Old one.
by EeDan on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 05:09:36 AM PDT
I think
;)
by DrSteveB on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 05:16:31 AM PDT
way to describe the difference!!
Inconceivable! You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
by hopeful on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 05:54:29 AM PDT
Gender is a role. Sex is biology.
It is also fun, when done with a fun-loving person.
Je suis inondé de déesses
by Marc in KS on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:18:15 AM PDT
locations , too , if it is to be worth getting sweaty for.
by Abra Crabcakeya on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 11:20:20 AM PDT
they think it is more polite or genteel to use 'gender' (don't say the 's' word!), and genuinely don't realize there is a difference.
"Going to church does not make us Christians any more than stepping into our garage makes us a car." --Rev R. Neville
by catleigh on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:31:32 AM PDT
tell by looking what someone's sex is, can you? But you can tell what gender someone is displaying, so it makes more sense to talk about gender a lot of the time. It also makes sense to talk about gender if you are asking how people self-identify, and not giving very many categories (unlike this poll). "Sex" actually has more gradation than we generally acknowledge, but again, we're so accustomed to male/female binary that it actually is more polite to use "gender" if you're only giving those two choices - because there are many people who don't fit either "sex" category but who may feel somewhat more comfortable identifying with one or the other gender.
Not about not saying the "s" word, though. ;-)
by thisniss on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:08:50 AM PDT
as a grammatical term; it's something words have, only imperfectly related to the sex of the referent. (I was exposed to foreign languages at a much earlier age than most Americans seem to be.) Then in the sixties it seemed to me that people were using "gender" as a euphemism for "sex." Only later did I notice some people making the sort of distinction this diary points to. I'm still not convinced that the euphemistic use is an "increasing misuse." My impression is still that it was there first, and what is here considered the more accurate usage is really a more recent development. Or maybe it's just that most of us aren't aware of any difference between our own "sex" and "gender," and so it seems that the distinction is more an affectation of a minority. Does anyone know the real history of the term? In any case I am biologically male, psychologically more male than female, and orientation I'll deal with when that is polled.
When civilizations clash, barbarism wins.
by Allogenes on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:06:57 AM PDT
from "sex," so it's been around for a while. but we looked at gender as biologically determined (by sex) from roughly the Enlightenment onwards. Before that, it was believed to be much more fluid - literally, as some gender schemas were based on concepts of "the humours" (depending on what was predominant, you became a male or a female).
Around the 1950's, the fixity of gender roles came into question again, from two fronts. One was sociological, those investigating "role theory." More importantly, though, were the questions of 2nd wave feminists. One landmark was Simone de Beauvoir's The Second Sex, in which she famously remarked that "One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman."
I'm sure there are many, many people here better qualified than I to give you a history of the use of the term "gender" - that's just my little rundown. I am not biting my nails if I'm typing, and this is a better thread than most of the "recommended" ones today. :-)
by thisniss on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:28:56 AM PDT
I would have sworn that we were all much, much younger today than yesterday.
...once you're willing to say whatever it takes to win, you lose. ~~Dean
by dkmich on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:59:53 AM PDT
I've "leaped" into the next broad age category this year.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant
by historys mysteries on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 05:05:44 AM PDT
If, in our efforts to win, we become as dishonest as our opponents on the right, we don't deserve to triumph.
by Tamar on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 05:37:30 AM PDT
And just what are you implying by "'Broad' age"?
Care to justify your remarks?
Links, citations, please.
Ask me about my daughter's future - Ko
by koNko on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:44:39 AM PDT
Love Dean and the 50 State Strategy!
OWW4O (Old White Woman 4 Obama) OWW40's Unite!
by Cyber Kat on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:40:20 AM PDT
The answer is "Yes."
Happy little moron, Lucky little man.I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!-Spike Milligan
by polecat on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 05:12:12 AM PDT
Not so much.....;)
If we want peace, why do we give weapons and call it "aid"?
by gdwtch52 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 05:59:01 AM PDT
by polecat on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 09:33:02 AM PDT
and a daily dose of Kos...
by gdwtch52 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 12:21:39 PM PDT
As long as you get sex, right?
by koNko on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:42:14 AM PDT
and married.
But I couldn't resist the line.
by polecat on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:49:50 AM PDT
Us married men are so easy to please.
Um ...polecat = man, I suppose.
by koNko on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:51:13 AM PDT
females you read about in the Washington Post.
by georgia10 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 05:19:44 AM PDT
well -- at least in the WaPo's view. Remind me to tell you the story about Leonard Downie, Juan Williams and the columnist Judy Mann (she died a couple of years ago). Okay, I'll consider myself reminded. Juan Williams was at the top of his game at the Post when the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings started. He wrote columns defending Thomas, what a great guy he was, how he was being mistreated. Turns out that Williams had "stumbled" into his own little harassment problem. Apparently he had been annoying a number of women on the Post staff with comments, hitting on them, etc. Complaints were made but nobody did anything. Finally a group of women (as I remember it was 7 or more) stormed into Downie's office and demanded he do something. Poor Juan -- he was forced to apologize. Such a terrible punishment. Meanwhile, Downie decided that Judy Mann, an excellent columnist who had been in the Metro section, was too "shrill" (yes, he used that word) and he demoted her to the style section. And no one did anything about the lack of ethics Williams showed in writing about Thomas' harassment issue while neglecting to admit he was having a little problem himself. I confronted Downie about this when he appeared in a panel discussion -- he gave me the same look Bush gives when people dare to criticize the emperor.
by Tamar on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 05:45:41 AM PDT
And I had forgotten about that! Thanks for the reminder.
by vard on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 12:44:24 PM PDT
go read chick lit and eat bon bons or something that doesn't tax my poor little brain too much.
by catleigh on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:33:24 AM PDT
Given the obviously politically correct and sex-gender neutral choice to list Androgyne, Intergender, Agender, Genderqueer first, what do you do?
Male-Manley-Man first, keep-them-guessing-none-of-your-damn-business-androgeny last!
But it least it was convenient for me to vote.
by koNko on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:32:41 AM PDT
2:1 male last time
by DrSteveB on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 08:45:35 AM PDT
any interesting, analytical diary that's not about the latest alleged outrage coming from Hillary Clinton.
John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:42:53 AM PDT
Very glad that no one (or no one that will admit it) under 15 comes here...at least during the primary season. Get a whole evening of Richard Pryorish language in every diary! :)
Garrhgsfsafasd!
by Hedwig on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:33:41 AM PDT
by the chart.
If so, change your Text Size (ctl-"+" or ctl-"-") until you can see it.
Then click it!
This has been a public service announcement!
by Ralph Kramden on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 08:21:43 AM PDT
hopefully table fits better for most viewers now.
by DrSteveB on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 08:56:09 AM PDT
This is not a time for a candidate who will offend no one; it is time for a candidate who takes clear stands and kicks ass - Molly Ivins
by TigerMom on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 04:23:03 PM PDT
intersex international http://www.intersexualite.org/...
poverty,poverty,poverty...the real enemy the democratic party should be fighting
by Lisactal on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 06:27:39 PM PDT
wide narrow
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