Daily Kos

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  •  While (12+ / 0-)

    I don't follow the issue that directly, a few friends of mine who write for Treehugger - the dKos of the environmentalists - criticize these standards every time they get, for being a sellout to big business (specifically the organically processed food ones).

    When I asked for an example, one of them sent me this: pancake mix from an aerosol can, with a large USDA Organic stamp on it. I find it hard to trust in standards that would let something so clearly processed to all hell count as "organic."

    If you want to learn more about this - as well as the fabrication that is "free-range" meat - check out the book Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan. Regardless of which parts of it gets your goat, I guarantee some parts of it will make you want to scream at the regulations we've got going on, and how unrepresentative they are of what's actually in your food.

    For the record, I'm neither a vegetarian nor someone who buys exclusively organic food. I buy what's convenient, and if I can hit up a local market to get some solid locally-produced things I will as a bonus. It's more the deception in labeling that gets me - if I wanted to actually eat strictly organic stuff, I'd like the labeling to be somewhat accurate.

    AT&T offers exciting work for recent graduates in computer science. Pick up the phone, call your mom, and ask for an application.

    by Scipio on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 11:34:30 AM PDT

    •  I checked out the website for "Batter Blaster" .. (8+ / 0-)

      ... and the ingredients are indeed organic, the propellant is plain carbon dioxide and it requires refrigeration because it has no preservatives.

      Regardless that the ingredients are organic, the stuff is ridiculously expensive and the packaging wasteful as hell; nobody who is serious about organic / local / sustainable is gonna buy the shit. Now, if you're into "organic" because it's the latest upscale suburbanite trend ...

      Finally, is it the responsibility of the organic standard to prevent people from being fucking stoooopid ?!?!?

      "When reality bites, bite back!" ~ The Werewolf Prophet, resident loopy guru of Prophecy Street.

      by The Werewolf Prophet on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 12:24:21 PM PDT

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    •  omg I know that pancake shit you're talking about (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Hardhat Democrat

      sick!

      And yes, I fully agree w/ you. In my mind, codifying organics the way we have and implementing a certification program allows the big guys in - and they often don't do things well. I suppose the questions to ask are: Is it overall better to allow the big guys a way in even if it's watered down from what small farmers do, because it's keeping a lot of land pesticide-free? Or, do the big guys cannibalize business that small family farmers would get if industrialized organic didn't exist? And does allowing industrialized organics into the mix, do we perhaps wake up consumers because they see organics in mainstream groceries and once they are aware of issues, attract more of them to farmers markets?

      I'd be interested to hear what other people think about that.

      •  I lived in the Burlington, VT area for 20 yrs. (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        theran, OrangeClouds115

        There is a weekly farmers market from May through October. It is extraordinarily popular. There is also a local food co-op and a for profit health food store in the area. In season, the food co-op carries local produce from the same farmers as sell at the farmers market along with produce from much further away. I don't know about the health food store, but I assume that it is similar there. However, the co-op also sells produce and processed food from other areas. Most shoppers prefer to buy local if possible, just for the taste value alone which is clearly superior. The nearest regular supermarket is a few miles outside of town, and it has an organic section.

        I used to be in the wholesale and manufacturing side of the organic and natural food business as well as having been a grower, so I know a fair bit about organic standards. When I ask the produce people at the co-op about how they know if the food is organic, they simply rely on the distributor and the local farmers and, under careful questioning by me, have no idea what those standards are, so I am less than convinced that if something slipped through from a questionable supplier that they would have the knowledge or the interest to catch it. They do at least label where everything comes from, and if it's organic, transitional, or neither.

        That said, I prefer that the big growers have a way in, because then they have an interest in seeing organics maintained and funded, rather than as competition to be legislated out of existence. It also creates a larger marketplace for organic food which will pull in more entrepreneurs, even if you get stuff like "pancakes in a can" along with other processed organic food. Organic farmers, IMHO, are in no danger of running out of customers, as the organic slice of the produce market is growing at a much faster clip than commercially grown produce in general.

        But the organic standards, like liberty itself, will require eternal vigilance to maintain. 'Twas it ever thus.


        -7.25/-6.41 Consumerism is the disease that allows the ruling classes to thrive; therefore, not buying is a small but necessary first act of rebellion.

        by sravaka on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 06:33:16 PM PDT

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    •  btw, I didn't put this sort of commentary (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      theran, Hardhat Democrat

      in the diary itself bc I wanted the diary to represent Harry's views w/o injecting my own thoughts into it. But I agree wholeheartedly w/ you.

      •  If you're into this (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        OrangeClouds115, farmerchuck

        And it seems you are, then I strongly recommend you read Omnivore's Dilemma, which I linked to above. Pollan makes the point that we shouldn't be looking at it as organic vs. inorganic, but as sustainable vs. non-sustainable.

        You can have a small farmer who rotates his crops well, plans things out, changes what he grows with the weather, and yes, uses a few pesticides. Likewise you can have huge agri-business doing organics, who pump the soil full of nitrogen to such a degree that it needs a few years of rest to recover, and the local streams need a while to recover after all the runoff from the over-fertilizing (with natural minerals) done to the organic crops. One - and I'll give you a hint, it's the first one - is better both for you and for the environment, yet isn't strictly "organic."

        There's also the logistics of agri-business organic products: most are grown on the same farms as their non-organic counterparts, if not right next to them. So you'd hit one field with pesticides, but the field next to it you wouldn't - and it would be certifiable organic, despite absorbing the run-off of the pesticide field, sharing the same contaminated groundwater, and almost certainly getting a healthy dose of pesticides from the wind blowing the particles over.

        The moral of his (and I guess my) story is that if you want organic, you need to eat local. Talk to the guy you're buying your things from, who's ideally the guy that grows them as well. As how he farms. Pay that bit extra to help out small farmers. If you're lucky and find a good supplier, go visit the farm.

        AT&T offers exciting work for recent graduates in computer science. Pick up the phone, call your mom, and ask for an application.

        by Scipio on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 03:04:52 PM PDT

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