Daily Kos

View Story | 219 comments

  •  It's true that there is sexism. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    soms

    But you can count on most of us to point it out and fight it when we see it. But if there's one thing that we've learned about the primary season, it's that primal freeperism seems to be embedded in human nature.  So we'll do our best to handle it.

    by bhagamu on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:22:04 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  No, I can't count on you. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Caoilainn

      (I don't mean you personally.)

      I mean, this whole community.  The defense of Randi Rhodes's comments has turned my stomach.

      The way all media criticism about Hillary is now met with total glee because it's about Hillary.

      Even the comments that try to start by acknowleding sexism end up having a big "yes, but" in them.

      by Angry Mouse on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:25:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  A lot of people also took issue (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Angry Mouse, soms, cachola

        vociferously with Randi's comments.

        Try to keep that in mind as well.

        Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

        by boadicea on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:28:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I do. And I appreciate it. (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          boadicea, RisingTide, Caoilainn, fernan47

          I'm pissed.  And I'm not nearly as eloquent when I'm pissed.  

          I feel like we've been having this argument all week, and it's getting uglier and uglier.

          We need to stop it.  Those of us in this community who try to be careful and considerate in how we converse -- even in how we disagree -- need to step up and squash this ugliness before it gets any worse.

          by Angry Mouse on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:31:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Actually, I disagree there as well. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            soms

            Clearly, we still need to have this argument-I remember well the pie fights of yore, and they were exhausting.

            Yet, I still hat to tee off the other day on a diarist who tried to beard his misogyny by paraphrasing feminists of another era and calling Hillary's supporters "a feminist army".

            There is real sexism, and real racism just under the surface of our polical discourse.

            The only way out of this morass is through-through more speech, not less.

            Through jokes that will sometimes miss the mark.

            And sometime through anger that seeks a target-any target-on which to spend itself.

            I look forward to the diary you wrote of developing.

            Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

            by boadicea on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:40:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Get out some steel boots (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            SingularExistence, Angry Mouse

            and get ready to stamp your feet.

            You call people on their bullshit, and you expect to be called on your own.

            Here, some folks are saying you're over reacting to a particular diary. Well, maybe you are. But i can certainly understand it, when you've had a long hard mush through some of these craptastic diaries.

            Don't let them get to you -- there are Hillary assholes and Barack assholes, and they won't matter one whit once the election is over.

            Jesus ain't comin', go ahead and put the Nukes back now.

            by RisingTide on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:42:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  But it will matter. (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              RisingTide, fernan47

              Because what happens the next time a woman runs for president (you know, in 2072)?

              If we give the media a pass on how it talks about female candidates now, we're going to be having these same arguments later.

              And I'll tell you something else.  Although I am usually a registered a Democrat, and almost always vote Democrat, I'm feeling pretty fucking disappointed by my party at the moment.  Because I don't see a lot of outrage on this subject.

              And I don't mean outrage about Hillary.  I mean outrage about the language we use, the standards we apply, to women.

              Right now, I'm feeling pretty taken for granted, actually.  Because I can can "cry" and "whine" and "stamp my feet", but where am I gonna go?  McCain?  So he can call me a cunt?  I don't think so.

              As I've said, this isn't about Hillary anymore.

              It's about us.

              by Angry Mouse on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:54:14 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  I have to agree (6+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        RisingTide, Caoilainn, DemocraticOz, Angry Mouse, soms, fernan47

        There have been many, many sexist comments made here about Hillary by people who probably don't even realize how sexist they sound. The problem is, when you call them on it you run into a huge wall of defensiveness and denial, usually beginning with, "Lighten up! It was just a joke!" or "How can I possibly be sexist? I have a daughter!"

        Press it a little further and it becomes, "I'm so sick of all the whining about sexism; that's not why Hillary's not winning!" Which is true - but it also doesn't make the sexist comments okay.

        I'll be honest; at first, I didn't think a lot of the Clinton campaign comments Obama supporters took issue with were racist on their face. But when I actually took the time to understand why they were so offensive, and how they came across to people, I got it. I just wish people would try to do the same with the Hillary mockery.

        "I can't come to bed yet! Someone is WRONG on the Internet!" - XKCD

        by SingularExistence on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 01:39:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

View Story | 219 comments