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and I think if her name was anything other than "Clinton" she would already have been forced to drop out of this race. I also think her refusal to admit defeat and split the Party in a year that the Repubs shouldn't even have a decent shot at winning the White House, is the height of arrogance and self-importance.
That said, if Hillary were to somehow win the nomination I would still vote for her and that's more than I can say that I hear from the hardcore Hillary supporters who are so stuck in their little fantasy world that if Hillary doesn't win the nomination they'll throw a crybaby fit and vote for Mr Bomb bomb Iran, 100 years in Iraq.
by Jeff Y on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:16:38 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
And Clinton wins by default, I'd seriously consider voting for her. If she wins in the underhanded way she is intimating she will try to win, I'm going to try to get a ride out to Denver where I can spend a couple days in jail for nonviolent civil disobedience. And I realize such behavior may cost the Democrats the election. I may be a Democrat, but I am a democrat first.
I'm sorry if this offends people on here. I am a believer in electoral politics as the first choice venue for producing change. But when democracy is stymied, it is the duty of concerned citizens to resist in a disciplined and non-violent manner.
WARNING: There is a high probability that the preceding comment is snark. Use your best judgment (hopefully better than Senator McCain's).
by Anarchofascist on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:51:35 AM PDT
I may be a Democrat, but I am a democrat first.
You're right: that will offend some people here. I will probably offend them even more by plucking it out and highlighting it. But for me, any offense they may feel suffers from the same deficit of principle and logic that is embodied in the proposed flagburning amendment.
The flag is a symbol, a surrogate or proxy, for the core principles our country stands for. Prominent among those is the right to freely choose and express our beliefs. A flag-burning ban elevates the symbol above the reality.
Similarly, the Democratic party is an institution that exists to promote little-d democracy -- the power of the people to participate in, and make choices about, the governance of their country. To insist that Party loyalty requires supporting a candidate who became the candidate by subverting the popular will as expressed in valid primary contests is to elevate the proxy, the symbol, above the reality it is supposed to reflect. That isn't how I do politics.
Onward to the Mountaintop!
by NWTerriD on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:21:47 AM PDT
Who hasn't had a good track record of voting.
I haven't voted in several elections due to a feeling of having to hold my nose and pick from the lesser of two evils (the last time I voted it was for Ross Perot).
I was attracted to Obama because I really, honestly believe that he has the integrity and ability to bring change to the political process. I see a vote for Obama as a vote for my children's futures.
IF, and I wish it were a bigger if, Billary manages to steal the election, I will simply crawl back under my rock and never vote again. Somehow, someway, WE must make the Democratic party leadership understand that the future of the Democratic party is in thier hands. Its not about alligiance to a former President, it is about the desire of the democracy.
IF the democratic party leadership allows Billary to steal the election, they will alienate all of the young voters, Independents and cross-over Republicans. They must be held responsible if they allow that to happen.
"...hope can find its way back to the darkest of corners" -- Barack Obama, May 6, 2008
by SnowItch on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:25:18 AM PDT
She's voting for Obama because, to echo SnowItch , she finally doesn't have to vote for the lesser of two evils (which has been the R candidate, sigh) for once in her life. She's a values voter and wants to go with the candidate who reflects her values: honesty, integrity, responsiveness, understanding.
Which, as others have pointed out, what the heck are American values?
And perhaps, since she has started to read the daily kos (!) she will add to the list of values.
by nomdegrrl on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:39:45 AM PDT
Be the change you want to see in the world.
by empathy on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:55:41 AM PDT
But now that I think about it, I can see how that is important.
By responsiveness, do you refer to the fact that Obama is perceived as listening to people and then responding to their concerns/arguments. Does this fall in line with his statements that he'll agree to listen to your argument, but not to agree (I like that about him).
Interesting perspective on responsiveness - thanks for sharing.
by SnowItch on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:26:50 AM PDT
sounds like she needs to read "Whats the matter with Kansas" and "Great American Hypocrites", stat.
by Uberbah on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:26:03 PM PDT
instead of continuing to fight.
You will change absolutely nothing by walking away. I hope it doesn't come to such a choice at any rate, but if it does, I urge you to take a breath, take a short break if need be, and fight.
Fight till you can't.
Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.
by boadicea on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:29:24 AM PDT
I retract my crawling back under my rock statement.
I do so, because upon re-reading the thread, I realized that the most important reason I'm supporting Obama is for my children. My childrens' future is worth a fight.
Guess I should start figuring out how I'm going to get to Denver - I'm convinced that Billary is going to pull some trick out of her hat (why else would she be so adamant about staying).
by SnowItch on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:39:40 AM PDT
Even when Obama is president, there will be a lot that we need to change.
Together.
by boadicea on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:21:40 AM PDT
and am seriously thinking about whether I should take the last of my life insurance money to try to get there.
Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
by TrueBlueMajority on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:26:26 AM PDT
Even if it somehow ends up being Clinton. She lost my support quite some time ago, but no matter how win-at-all-costs she may have become (or always been), she would be better for the country than McCain. McCain would be just too dangerous a president to sit out this time. Please don't. If you want to vote for Obama for the sake of your children and grandchildren, please vote against McCain for that very reason.
by Shuruq on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:31:48 AM PDT
wide narrow
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