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that uncomfortable reaction to an uncomfortable question. The longer this goes, the more we see, the more layers that are peeled away, the worse the Clintons look. I can't imagine the public being more inclined to vote for them after this primary.
by dotster on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:41:02 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Is that what that's called? Not the maniacal cackling of a deranged serial liar?
Canada - where a pack of smokes is ten bucks and a heart transplant is free.
by dpc on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:51:09 AM PDT
I love how they have to diminish her. Laughter. I'm an Obama Mama, but give me a fucking break.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
by empathy on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:36:11 AM PDT
It would have been better if her campaign just said; "We are sorry. This was a mistake." But it seems admitting error is not a characteristic the Clintons are capable of manifesting. That's why one wouldn;t be too far off if one refers to her as an outright liar. It has nothing to with attempting to diminish her. It just is what it is. These are bold-faced lies being told deliberately.
A Tiger does not always show his Tigritude -- African Proverb
by The British Observer on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:42:54 AM PDT
We've had seven years of a president who can't admit to a mistake and can't take responsibility for problems. And we've all see how well that's gone.
O it is excellent to have a giant's strength: but it is tyrannous to use it like a giant. --Measure for Measure, II.2
by RogueStage on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:03:36 AM PDT
On the ISSUE, I think she is completely wrong. I just have an issue with her referred to as giggling. Sexist dog whistle for me. Not a big deal really. Just yanked my chain.
by empathy on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:21:45 AM PDT
Boy am I funny or what? ;-P
by empathy on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:22:31 AM PDT
You don't come equipped with a chain. Just sayin' :)
Psst! Don't panic
by Quicklund on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:48:29 AM PDT
It's a cackle, pure and simple. That woman doesn't know how to giggle.
-8.62, -6.62
by The Distillery on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:25:15 AM PDT
is that there is a FREE PASS given to her EVERY SINGLE time she uses sexist tactics to her advantage! And don't even get me started on the claims that the boys are picking on her, or Bill claiming people think they can pick on her cuz it's ok to pick on a girl (his word).
The Clintons are slime from head to toe. And that includes Chelsea. Yes.
McCain - Worse than Bush
by MAORCA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:18:56 AM PDT
...which verbs are verboten? Can we get a list from someone?
I mean, really. Men don't giggle?
I love my country. Can I have it back, please?
by swilldog on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:47:20 AM PDT
And I have the requisite equipment.
May this find you in good health and good spirits, and if you're lucky, under the influence of the latter.
by Dapremonster on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:17:39 AM PDT
Jon Stewart. Big giggler.
"So here's us, on the raggedy edge" - Mal Reynolds -8.88, -7.90
by Presumptuous Insect on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:05:09 AM PDT
And I used to have so much respect for him, as a man. ;P
Oh well, now I guess I'll just have to envy him for his quick wit and success alone.
by kingfishstew on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:43:35 AM PDT
I guess if all comes down to how people define the term. One definiton of giggle is .. a foolish or nervous laugh. I would consider her laughter nervous.
Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/05/22/gi_bill/index.html opposition
by ScienceMom on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:52:04 AM PDT
"dog whistle" "yanked my chain"
When will people give canines the respect they deserve?
"Dissent is the Highest form of Patriotism." Tommy J.
by Dissentinator on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:52:09 AM PDT
sexist, just descriptive of the sound. I don't know what one calls that staccato "HA!" that Tweety does though...defies a good definition. He's also "shrill". None of it's gender specific.
Btw, I'm a female who has a huge range of response sounds...but cannot, for some reason, mimic the TweetyHA!
"Evil is a lack of empathy, a total incapacity to feel with their fellow man." - Capt. Gilbert,Psychiatrist, at the end of Nuremberg trials.
by 417els on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:54:50 AM PDT
hurting us the most. People on the other side of the world know the facts before the Americans. Yes, she will continue with more of the same, as will Senator Mccain.
WAKE UP AMERICA!!
by OH NOT AGAIN on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:38:16 AM PDT
I just don't like the characterization used in the original "giggling". Laughing chortling, fine. Giggling and cackling are dog whistle for me. I am totally fed up with Hillary. Have been for months.
by empathy on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:19:31 AM PDT
One of the more devastating take-downs of the primary was to listen to the pilot of the Tuzla flight. Item by item he debunked the Clinton campaigns weak follow ups, designed to reassure everyone that it really was very dangerous after all, even if no one was shooting at them. Except with video cameras.
The pilot said: Tuzla is in a bowl, approach is steep due to terrain. No war was on, peace was six months earlier. No one sat on flak jackets, he was only aware of that being done in one movie, but never in real life. But what he ended by saying was the most telling. He said, "Do you seriously think I would have flown the First Lady into a potentially life-threatening situation? Are you nuts?!?"
From that I inferred that there is a general rule in the Air Force against being terminally stupid. I guess if one managed to get the First Lady shot while on your plane that would be a really big black mark on your record. Really, really, really BIG. Court Martial big. The description of the Tuzla story as a Walter Mitty fantasy is apt, but the follow-up from the campaign, trying desperately to say that it really was pretty scary, even if there were no snipers? Desperate. Dishonest. Something I do not want to hear from a candidate's campaign staff.
by arthura on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:48:03 AM PDT
The commander in that sector essentially froze all the peacekeeping work before and during Hillary's visit solely to enure that her visit was ultra-safe and eventless. Military officers take these things very seriously and if there was even a minor incident anywhere NEAR Hillary during the visit, heads would have rolled. So the commander took no chances. EVERYTHING was redirected to focus on ensuring a safe visit by the first lady.
And look at how SHE makes them look, for causing her to dash from the plane to the cars with 'heads down'.
by MAORCA on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:24:06 AM PDT
she admitted it on SNL. So give her a fucking break. She was willing to yuck up the jokes the days before Ohio for any cheap vote she could get.
Email her and tell her to stop making fun of her own laughter, tell her to give you a break!
Rupert Murdoch is on the Associated Press Board of Directors!!!
by Lava20 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:02:44 AM PDT
It's silence-filler while the brain desparately searches about for a way to wriggle out of the questioner's crosshairs.
Hey! I want to listen to that for the next four years ... how about you?
by Quicklund on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:51:30 AM PDT
by empathy on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:12:41 AM PDT
It's a defensive cackle that she uses when a verbal response doesn't spring to mind immediately. And if you notice, in this instance, she really doesn't give a response at all.
And, frankly, I believe it's a pretty important issue.
So I'd be happy to give you a break. But I wouldn't give her one at all.
by brentmack on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:37:54 AM PDT
It wasn't the usual cackle. It sounds more like hiccups.
by cadejo4 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:16:29 AM PDT
It has become so blindingly obvious that Sen. Clinton is such a pathological liar that it is almost comedic watching her on TV now. I mean, you have to question yourself as to whether or not what shes actually saying is true.
by The British Observer on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:39:44 AM PDT
Clinton has worn out her welcome in the nomination contest, but this sort of smear is unacceptable.
Don't like XOM and OPEC? What have YOU done to reduce your oil consumption? Hot air does NOT constitute a renewable resource!
by Asak on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:02:58 AM PDT
You cannot destroy someone in some underhanded Rove way when you are speaking the truth.
by dan667 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:25:13 AM PDT
TBO's comment does not rate an HR. Comments such as this must be countered with superiour persuasion, not by HR.
by Quicklund on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:55:56 AM PDT
FYI
by Stop It on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:21:04 AM PDT
This comment was no worse than a hundred other comments posted on this thread.
by The Distillery on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:23:03 AM PDT
She lied over Tuzla; that is settled fact. It is not a smear to state something that is factual.
Conservatism is Dead!
by Eternal Hope on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:12:16 AM PDT
I dispute this deserve a HR. Take it off now...
by The British Observer on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 11:41:59 AM PDT
Can't believe you got a hide rating for this comment. She has actually become uncomfortable to listen to - everything seems phony, false and full of bullshit.
There was nothing wrong with the question.
Husband gets 800K from Colombia, you lend your campaign 5 million - so has Colombia financed your campaign?
Instead of an answer we get this odd, weird performance which is oh-so condescending while at the same time showing her becoming unhinged. She needs a rest from all this - and she should never, ever be elected President.
by dpc on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:58:46 AM PDT
by Mbuto on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:07:15 AM PDT
The first thought I had was Clark Griswald's demented laugh on his doomed trip to Wallyworld.
Iran, Russia, Saudia Arabia, and Norway will no longer be oil exporters by 2030. Link
by aztecraingod on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:58:49 AM PDT
and point it at the reporter who looks suspiciously like the late John Candy.
There has to be an invisible sun / That gives us hope when the whole day's done -Police
by rightiswrong on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:13:12 AM PDT
The moose out front shoulda told ya.
"We need an energy bill that encourages consumption." --Trenton, N.J., Sept. 23, 2002-GWB
by meatwad420 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:41:31 AM PDT
by kanuk on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:41:18 AM PDT
Hard to describe exactly though.
"We the People of the United States..." -U.S.Constitution
by elwior on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:48:48 AM PDT
because she didn't really cry. Despite the media's attempts to characterize it as such.
"I can't come to bed yet! Someone is WRONG on the Internet!" - XKCD
by SingularExistence on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:30:25 AM PDT
but for quite a while I've been hearing some strange, out of control feelings underneath that laugh. It sounds to me and my women friends that there's an undertone of hysteria to it. (I am a woman too)
by Earl3 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:02:07 AM PDT
Whatever the origins of the word.
Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67
by bythesea on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:04:01 AM PDT
I watched that clip and my first reaction is how 'unpresidential' that reply was--she should have been prepared to answer it.
"People should not vote for any Republican, because they're dangerous, dishonest and self-serving"
by Wary on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:32:11 AM PDT
I've seen the longer version. She doesn't stop laughing...very strange to watch. This edit is kind to Clinton.
Its the delegates that count
by Morgan Sandlin on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:39:49 AM PDT
by bythesea on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:42:48 AM PDT
I'd love to see it.
I trust Barack Obama.
by casperr on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:43:53 AM PDT
I was just cruising around and found it...let me go backtrack and see where it was :)
by Morgan Sandlin on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:50:14 AM PDT
She gives a longer answer regarding her Colombia position..and that laugh. I'll run into it somewhere. If someone else finds it let me know so I can stop looking...
by Morgan Sandlin on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:18:34 AM PDT
I will try to help find it.
Grandpa is mean and he smells funny.
by MadAsHellMaddie on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:35:46 AM PDT
by Morgan Sandlin on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:55:59 AM PDT
when he's on the hotseat. In particular, at questions of responsibility regarding human suffering, soldiers deaths, and Iraqis by the thousands. In that context, Hillary is looking very presidential here. How asinine. Something strikes too close to home, laugh, throw up up your hands while Rome burns and just say I don't know. Commander in chief threshold my ass!
Hey, can we get some non Fox News video of this?
by rightiswrong on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:57:29 AM PDT
by Lava20 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:04:44 AM PDT
Bush lacks empathy - has his strange smirk sometimes when he should express emotion but can't (doesn't have emotions?). And I agree with comments above, HRC's reaction seems to have an undertone of hysteria. She looks extremely tired and stressed here. Be interesting to see the longer version. The money thing must put enormous pressure on her too -owing so much and now the money is drying up.
Viva Obama
by Errol on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:50:53 AM PDT
many people have what are considered 'inappropriate' reactions when they're under stress.
But if you're a high-level politician and running for president, one of the FIRST things you should be trained in is how to CONTROL those inappropriate reactions.
Some people can't learn that, and that's part of what the primary process exposes.
People who 'interview well' learn how to do that. People who come across as fake or strange, don't. Or don't do it well.
by mmacdDE on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:15:47 AM PDT
The invasion of Iraq.
by rightiswrong on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 09:41:42 AM PDT
by 417els on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 11:03:11 AM PDT
And it's not day 1 yet. She'll be much, much better on day 1, and her daily schedule will include time to answer difficult questions in the wee hours.
Hands off my Social Security, John McCain.
by emmasnacker on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:12:10 AM PDT
"At 3 AM, no one can hear your laughter..."
Camera pans back from a night shot of the white house, Hillary's cackle echoes in the distance.
by rightiswrong on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:19:04 AM PDT
by emmasnacker on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:40:00 AM PDT
She's not ready yet. She'll be ready on day 1. How many times does she have to tell you people this?
Don't mean to be such a sarcastic jerk, but Hillary is harming this party now and its hard to be kind to her these days.
Your ad could be here.
by TheC on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:40:32 AM PDT
slowly seeps into the cracks, then raises the 2x4 and whacks one upside the haid.
by emmasnacker on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:41:01 AM PDT
she is already vetted so she again underestimates the MSM.
by OH NOT AGAIN on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:39:33 AM PDT
that uncomfortable reaction to an uncomfortable question.
I finally watched the video and it made me...uncomfortable. Similar to that debate where she stumbles on her Iraq vote. I support Obama, but when I see that it doesn't make me feel good - it makes me queasy.
by phillyPete on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:11:12 AM PDT
else's embarrassment.
I'm amazed that she wasn't prepared for this question. This lack of preparation is definite cause for concern, especially in light of how important this issue is to the American people, right now.
by bubbalie 517 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:15:20 AM PDT
Conflict of interest over using her own money? That has to be the most incredibly stupid question I've heard outside of a Bush softball press conference.
by SarekOfVulcan on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:44:19 AM PDT
makes me wonder what's going on in her life. HRC is on the edge, and ready to fall into the political abyss.
-7.38, -5.23 "Though the storm may be raging, and the billows tossing high, Lord I feel like going on."
by CocoaLove on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:14:44 AM PDT
...you'd laugh the absolutely same way.
That's all this is. She got caught, and now she's trying to weasel her way out of it.
The right response to this isn't to politely wait for her to put her spin together, it's to notice that her response is consistent with that of a crook.
We're pro-choice on everything! - Libertarian slogan
by CA Libertarian on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:28:35 AM PDT
but if it's not on teevee, it never happened. http://www.talkleft.com/...
by katz5 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:59:10 AM PDT
And not about a vital piece of personal experience, like that sniper story you're still busy whitewashing.
Further, he quickly retracted. There's no comparison in behavior at all.
by CA Libertarian on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:05:57 AM PDT
instead of laughing them off and not answering questions about them.
by RogueStage on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:06:39 AM PDT
See, he does something here she never does...he admits he made an mistake and apoligized. You might not be used to it because Hillary never does it. A lot of politicians don't. Obama does.
by Lava20 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:07:11 AM PDT
posting here. Clinton's been knowingly lying for years about this. (The Colombian government gave this money to them 3 YEARS ago.) Obama got the year wrong that the Kennedy's got involved in bringing Africans to America for education opportunities.
Go post your smear trash somewhere else.
by The Distillery on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:11:13 AM PDT
But I don't think these are the same.
This doesn't undermine any pivotal arguments for Obama's candidacy. And it appears he admitted the error. It was a silly mistatement, and his campaign said as much.
Clinton's Bosnia thing goes against her "experience" argument." But it wans't a mistake that she made numerous times, it was a "mistatement" made dude to "sleep deprivation."
She handled the Columbia thing even worse. "That legitimate question you just asked is as silly as some philisophical nonsense. (insert laughter here)"
by MingPicket on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:28:08 AM PDT
Obama recited a bit of family history as it had been related to him. It turns out to have been a family myth. It was wrong and he apologized when the inconsistency with the facts was pointed out.
Clinton described an event she participated in -- and which never happened! When caught in the lie, she tried to make up another version, and then the video of the arrival was found. Then, did she admit that she had made this up -- no, she "misstated" the truth.
The problem I have with her story is that it is the exact same crap we have been putting up with for the past 7 years. It is time to move on from that.
John McCain - Practicing the old style of politics for the past 72 years!
by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:41:05 AM PDT
Obama's mistake was of the same type of family myth as Hillary saying she'd been named after Sir Edmund Hillary.
The Bosnia story is in a whole different league. Hillary can't claim to have been misinformed by anyone as she was actually part of the event that she "mispoke" about.
by leckavrea on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:57:51 AM PDT
NOBODY CARES!
Never give up! Never surrender!
by oscarsmom on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:21:14 AM PDT
A couple days ago, I heard Harold Wolfsen's response on a conference call to some of these questions about Penn and Colombia. He is Hillary's highly paid communications director.
He didn't have any answers either - so he refused to answer questions about Penn's current role and kept attacking Obama because one of his unpaid advisor met with Canadians at a local consulate. His response was to keep attacking to divert attention, and so he didn't have to answer the question.
JPZenger was a newspaper publisher whose jury trial in the 1730s for seditious libel helped establish the freedom to criticize top government officials.
by JPZenger on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:50:23 AM PDT
and the other reaction I love is the - "feeling sorry for myself and everyone is against me" - gambit. She uses this one when she is caught in a lie, as in: "Well, when I said that I misspoke. It was late in the evening and I had experienced a very full, tiring day. I am only human after all, which some people ** boo hoo ** have a hard time understanding." (my "boo hoo" added) ...
"In the field of world policy, I would dedicate this nation to the policy of the good neighbor - " - FDR.
by wonky on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 05:44:24 AM PDT
the President is supposed to be SUPERhuman, or at least to appear so. Isn't that the whole point of the 3am phone call ad? The President is supposed to be fully awake, coherent, and clear thinking after being woke up in the middle of the night?
If Hilary can't respond correctly to a reporter's question in the middle of the day when she's just slightly sleep deprived, how the hell is she going to make the right snap decision in the middle of the night?
by mmacdDE on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:20:02 AM PDT
Where she was so crabby and complained about not getting enough sleep, etc etc etc.?
I remember thinking even then, that if she can't handle the stress of the campaign trail, she'll never be able to handle the stress of being president.
by oscarsmom on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:22:34 AM PDT
Earlier in the press conference, describing her husband's advocacy for the trade deal, Clinton said: "Everyone is free to express their opinion."
Oh, sure. Her chief campaign strategist and her husband the ex-President are free to disagree with her on one of the most critical issues in battleground states like Ohio and PA. We should pay no attention to that, 'cause she says she opposes the deal.
But back to Jeremiah Wright.... Clinton flying monkeys like Lanny Davis and Howard Wolfson are still trying to flog that dead horse. Somebody should ask Clinton why Obama should continued to be questioned on Jeremiah Wright's words if she shouldn't be grilled over her husband's work for the Colombian government.
Hanoi didn't break John McCain, but Washington did.
by Dallasdoc on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:02:25 AM PDT
Not that we were in danger of running out of examples of double-standards and shifting realities coming out of that camp, but yes.
by picohertz on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:13:56 AM PDT
What's she supposed to do, fire Bill?
I know for darned sure my wife doesn't agree with everything I say, but it's hardly a sign of poor judgment on her part that I take a different position than she does. (One could argue that marrying me in the first place was a sign of poor judgment, but... :-) )
by SarekOfVulcan on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:46:45 AM PDT
But she can't claim that she has no responsibility for Bill's actions, and then keep demanding that Obama take responsibility for the worst words ever uttered by his pastor.
The point is that this issue completely takes away the Wright issue from the Clintons, if it's played correctly.
by Dallasdoc on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:59:09 AM PDT
Really excellent point, but it would have to be played very carefully.
Barack Obama Respects Your Opinion
by DJShay on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:04:02 AM PDT
But you do pick your pastor and your spouse!
I think Bill is trying to throw this thing. Whether it's consciously or unconsciously is hard to say!
by elwior on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:57:50 AM PDT
Your wife is not running for president (is she?). If she was, and was running as a progressive, it would be in her interest to request that you refrain from taking money from nefarious governments. This is especially so when your wife would be taking positions contrary to the interests of those nefarious governments. While you are correct in asserting that you could espouse whatever opinions you want, as embarrassing as those may be to your potential president spouse, once you take money that is the joint property of marriage, you cross the line into causing an actual, rather than potential, conflict of interest that your wife should have the good JUDGEMENT to call you on. At that point, you can tell your wife to piss off, but after that point, she has to be able to answer why your greed, which has directly benefited her (and quite possibly her campaign), is not a conflict of interest. A giggle or a cackle will not suffice. She can't fire him (of course she can, and probably will, after she concedes), but if she had intentions of running for president (I think she may have) early on, she should have tried to control him (okay, that's admittedly impossible) or, in the alternative, come up with a good reason (lie) why its not a conflict. From day one!
by Dissentinator on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:24:02 AM PDT
and Live Long and Prosper!
by Dissentinator on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:25:30 AM PDT
and it makes her seem like a weirdo since that cackle comes at inappropriate times. One of her staff members needs to tell her about that.
by Aspe4 on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 06:07:50 AM PDT
Send in Leonard Pinth-Garnell for a review.
by MadAsHellMaddie on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 07:29:10 AM PDT
bad acting lessons lately...I don't remember her being this bad, especially in the speech about MLK. That was truly horrifying.
by oscarsmom on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 08:23:55 AM PDT
Think of the constitution as a levee. Think of our democracy as New Orleans.
by Into The Woods on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:33:44 AM PDT
Public figures laughing, snorting, snickering, giggling, whatever...when presented with very serious questions is infuriating.
"That's an innersting question." and "I appreshate you askin'." are two GDub hallmark responses which literally mean he's sorry he can't slap the questioner's face off. HRC is coming closer and closer to the Dub in her reactions. NOT good.
by 417els on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 10:43:29 AM PDT
wide narrow
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