View Story | 446 comments
Comments: Expand Shrink Hide (Always) | Indented Flat (Always)
t
o see her and Bill fight for the microphone to answer those questions shouted out to "President Clinton."
He'll drink her milkshake!
We drew our heavy revolvers (suddenly in the dream there were revolvers) and exultantly killed the gods. -- Jorge Luis Borges, Ragnarok
by Hobbitfoot on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:43:44 AM PDT
the nomination is that we'll be denied the chance to be ruled by two families for three decades. Where is everyone's sense of loyalty and tradition?
Obama/McCaskill vs. McCain/Jindal? Call it a funny feeling.
by ShadowSD on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:50:42 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
;)
by Zebras on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:53:05 AM PDT
You are a child of the universe; no less than the trees and the stars... Desiderata
by byteb on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:57:01 AM PDT
... and then run for President in Thirty Years under the Restoration Platform.
If at first you don't succeed, your name is not Chuck Todd.
by Larry Madill on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:58:55 AM PDT
He knows what his plans for Ireland are. ;P
by Zebras on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:02:13 AM PDT
... the Clintons are disgusting.
Brilliantly blessed are those who walk with courage through the depths of the own fear, for they will Love from the bottom of their heart.
by Craig Hickman on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:37:04 AM PDT
Then Chelsea.
You Sacrifice the Thing You Love the Most. I Love My Guitar - Jimi Hendrix
by jds1978 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:57:21 AM PDT
The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all - JFK- 5/18/63-Vanderbilt Univ.
by oibme on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:06:51 AM PDT
Wars not make one great. - Yoda
by Volvo Liberal on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:15:07 AM PDT
that pet-friendly place in the sky, but we have Jenna and Barbara to replace them. Not to worry.
by oibme on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 11:15:20 AM PDT
I can't wait for him to be president. He's dreamy. Who needs to worry about issues when you have a handsome president?
by sharky on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:34:05 PM PDT
thing, it's that America is supposed to be ruled by two families.
And seriously, it's really not fair that the pair of dynasties gets cut off right before Hillary gets a chance: that's sexist. Come to think of it, it wouldn't really be right if Jeb Bush didn't get his chance in 2016 given his far inferior fool of a brother got two terms. Then in 2024, you have to figure that Chelsea Clinton, who has been through A LOT growing up in the White House, clearly deserves an opportunity. And would it really be fair for George P. Bush to suffer just because he has the first name of two awful Presidents; law of averages says he has to be pretty decent, right?
I guess my point is, embrace the familiar and vote for sympathetic figures based on that familiarity. And watch my keys jingle. Pretty.
by ShadowSD on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:07:01 AM PDT
subject to the constitutional limits (including ammendments)
Obama/Whoever He Chooses '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party
by dvogel001 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:23:50 AM PDT
the implication that further Constitutional limits are needed to prevent two families from hijacking the entire two party system, which we know now is entirely possible; hypothetically, if I were a rich neocon imperialist, and I wanted to control the political system, my only chance for a permanent monopoly would be to have influence on two families that trade back and forth the White House every few years. I do not wish to get into a long debate about whether such a co-opting of the two major parties by corporate interests is happening now or whether it has happened before; just the fact that such an enticing possibility exists to be taken advantage of should raise serious red flags to anyone concerned with preserving our democracy.
by ShadowSD on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:30:10 AM PDT
people to make wise decisions (in most cases)...
by dvogel001 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:36:38 AM PDT
before you felt you could complete that sentence kind of proves my point ;)
by ShadowSD on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 11:07:47 AM PDT
I just do not believe in abosolutes...
by dvogel001 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:01:46 PM PDT
Which is why I worry about the exceptions that can corrupt the rule.
by ShadowSD on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:41:40 AM PDT
to have dynasties. They don't like to have to do extra work, so they can just build on their previous dossiers every 4 years, it becomes a work in progress, no new narratives have to be concocted, just add a Jr. to the name, or change the middle name, and substitute the war he or she avoided serving in, and you're good to go. Why make extra work for yourself, when they're just figureheads with a veto pen.
by Nimbus on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 11:37:45 AM PDT
Due to this campaign, I have come to regard them both as a couple of sick needy codependent psychos, in addition to them being a pair of opportunistic selfish grifters.
by BonzoDogBand on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:16:22 AM PDT
Obama bashing and a huge reason why she is not facing reality. As Bill was not never particularly keen about facing reality. It took him decades to realize he might have some problems with his need to hook up with women who were not his spouse sabotaging not just his career but the Democratic party.
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King Jr.
by wishingwell on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:36:22 AM PDT
It is difficult for codependents (like Bill) to recognize their own pathology.
Bill is as addicted to fame & attention as he is to illicit sex; that is why he is so obsessed with winning at any cost.
Dem party be damned, Bill must get his fix. Bill is pursuing a Hillary victory like a junkie pursues his dealer.
by BonzoDogBand on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:51:53 AM PDT
Apart from booze, he's got a horse in all of them starting with the "Co-Dependent Some More" thing we're watching right now. He'd fit right in with a solid handful.
This is from someone who always liked the guy. I read his bio when he was a new face in the early 90's and saw Adult Child written all over it. Not a bad thing, just is.
Always be sincere, even if you don't mean it. - Harry S Truman
by parker parrot on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 11:25:31 AM PDT
tell us what you really think
If Hillary got elected, Bill would be pushed to the background just like he should be. Then we would be treated to no end of leaks attributed to some "high level friend of the administration"
by unterhausen on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:45:38 AM PDT
Bill would be the secret go-to-guy, which is what Bill desperately craves.
by BonzoDogBand on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:54:21 AM PDT
Cause it would be utterly futile since you have quite a few fans uprating it already. I just find it really sad that this comment, which reads like something ripped from the filth of Free Republic is not only posted here but lauded.
I am shocked an angered at the repulsive actions that some of the Obama's supporters take in his name. How dare you spit on his message of unity this way?
Have you no decency?
Frugal Fridays, where the cheap come to chat.
by sarahnity on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 11:35:50 AM PDT
It was, however, not constructive; I'll agree with you there.
by ShadowSD on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 11:43:19 AM PDT
I've come to find myself feeling the same nausea when I hear Billary speak than I have felt over the last 8 years hearing you know who. Bill Clinton chose to destroy his own legacy in his attempts to take Obama down and now the chickens are coming home to roost
If you tremble with indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine. - Ernesto Che Guevara
by HGM MA on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 04:47:32 PM PDT
And I rec'd the original comment in question myself. However, in the name of bringing this already decided contest to a close, and bringing Clinton supporters into the fold, I'm sure Barack would be the first to suggest a constructive tone even if the reasons to be angry are justified.
Don't get me wrong, part of me feels like what you said about the Clintons needs to be said over and over so there are no illusion about what they have become. But, if I'm honest with myself, I can't honestly say that Obama would have rec'd that particularly angry comment if he were in my shoes, as part of his philosophy of putting what is constructive in the end above all else.
by ShadowSD on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 04:51:17 AM PDT
and to hear these so-called 'progressives' bitch, whine, moan and piss about how little he's accomplished, with a Democratic Congress.
THE PERFECT IS THE ENEMY OF THE GOOD. No one is perfect--the Clintons, Obama, whoever comes AFTER Obama who will eclipse his Presidency.
Everyone who disses the Clintons with such abandon now forgets what they've done for us so far--mistakes, disagreements and all. But I do not.
Monroe for Congress Time to dump Roy Blunt!
by DaddyO on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:51:52 AM PDT
Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.
by StrayCat on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:34:27 AM PDT
Ouch, even I feel bad after that one.
by ShadowSD on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:16:26 AM PDT
Is there anyone in the world--outside Osama--that doesn't wish that Bill Clinton had two more terms as president? The Bush's destroy--Bill rebuilds. That said, Hillary ain't no Bill. Too bad.
by melvynny on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:35:44 AM PDT
who wants Bill Clinton back and I know a good many Democrats. Most of them were wishing they could scrape the Clinton/Gore stickers off their cars after his first term. The impeachment scam saved him because the Democrats who were disenchanted with him rallied round him because of the absurdity. He destroyed the heart of the party and gave us the cowering Democratic Congress we have today.
by Fabienne on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:51:33 AM PDT
Just a suggestion.
"Some of you may decide that my FISA position is a deal breaker. That's ok." - Barack Obama
by Joe Beese on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:06:59 AM PDT
What a terrible legacy.
by melvynny on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 11:55:17 AM PDT
Papandreau and Karamanlis.
I went to Edwards and then Obama because of the sickening thought of "ascendant" family rule in America.
It is one thing to be related to several former Presidents like Roosevelt and yes, I think Bush too. But when it become blood/family ascension then something in America is broken.
Today, 7/4/08, 4113 Americans, and untold Iraqis are dead, tens of thousands more maimed. Bush lied, how soon before your family pays the price for that?
by boilerman10 on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:52:39 AM PDT
because there have only been 2 Democratic presidents in my 40 year lifetime (discounting the tail-end of LBJ's presidency).
After Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II, and Clinton dynasty means there's at least a DEMOCRAT in the White House!
I'll support whomever the Dem nominee is in November, but I don't fear a Clinton dynasty. All I fear another Republican in the White House, as I've seen over and over except the reprieve Clinton brought in the 1990s. Carter's term was so disastrous for Democrats, it's hard to think of that period as a reprieve.
by dogtracks on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:02:15 AM PDT
that I ultimately decided to omit right before posting, went like this "You OWE Bill Clinton for being the only Democrat in the White House for the last thirty years"
I never thought my sarcasm would be manifested literally.
by ShadowSD on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:22:08 AM PDT
You're right that no one owes the Clintons anything. However, there are people who appreciated having a Democrat in the White House for a change and remember President Clinton's tenure fondly.
It's also true that there's no logical reason to disqualify someone automatically just because a relative previously held the office--despite what a disaster the underqualified Bush, Jr turned out to be.
There's no such disqualifying amendment (and we know the 22nd Amendment was put in place by bitter GOP'ers after FDR's 4 terms, now don't we? ;-)
Your fear is unfounded.
by dogtracks on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:37:56 AM PDT
Read for yourself: http://www.dailykos.com/...
by ShadowSD on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 11:00:58 AM PDT
there's no logical reason to disqualify someone automatically just because a relative previously held the office
It is the appearance of impropriety that is important to avoid. This is the measuring stick for most ethical standards, isn't it? People aren't stupid, although they may be shallow and myopic. Hillary doesn't deserve to be president because her husband is fondly remembered by a large percentage of people who have been traumatized by eight years of Bush Cheney.
by Nimbus on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 11:31:45 AM PDT
example of why a two family monopoly, once in place, is very hard to break in a two party system; each party has fond memories of their ex-President, and the name that goes with it. This was never envisioned by the framers, and has never happened before in our history; it's practically designed for an endless loop, should we ever be unlucky enough to fall into it again in the future.
by ShadowSD on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 11:35:56 AM PDT
lazy. And obsessed with trivia. And sex.
by Nimbus on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 11:43:59 AM PDT
j/k :)
by ShadowSD on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:06:45 PM PDT
Since you brought him up, FDR was an example of how a multi-term President could be a blessing. However, instead of thinking only about the benefits of such a system, Americans also contemplated how such a precedent could be hijacked in the future by those with less honorable intentions. Indeed, humanity and history teaches us that such things are over time inevitable, and our Constitution itelf is a testament to how many careful rules and balances must be in place to prevent a potential power grab by SOMEONE at SOME POINT; the further amendments to our Constitution are further testament to that fact. None of those concerns came out of fear, they came out of wisdom.
A further amendment to prevent a two family monopoly like the one we have experienced would not curtail freedom any more than the two term limitation that came as a result of FDR, but is equally important in preventing a potential power grab of our government in the future; the possibility, however small it may seem, is unacceptable, if we are to adhere to the standard the Constitution's framers agonized over to make everything as airtight as they could at the time.
Lastly, I don't get your bitter shot; if you're trying to imply that I'm elitist, I should inform you that I'm a metal guitarist in a band whose one child household makes a combined income in the 30's - not exactly your profile of a latte sipping snob. I know the Clintons and McCains like to stand behind their tens of millions of dollars and call people with a fraction of that wealth "elitist", but really, it's nothing to emulate. I mean, I guess I appreciate the implication in such a statement that my posts are eloquently written, but if we want to label all intelligence elitism, we end up with Presidents like Bush; let's leave this line of attack to the Republicans, please.
by ShadowSD on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 11:32:52 AM PDT
Your points are well thought out, but I think misapplied here.
A further amendment to prevent a two family monopoly like the one we have experienced...
But we haven't experienced a two family monopoly. We had a single two-term Democrat (the first to win 2 elections since FDR) and 12 years of a GOP father/son combo wrapped around it. Needless to say, I think the current Bush has ended any contemplation of a further Bush "dynasty".
I would submit to you that the Bush's are beneficiaries of Reagan nostalgia, and you might view their terms as part of a Reagan dynasty.
Democrats have never been as cohesive as Republicans in my lifetime, and President Clinton's wife is not going to win the nomination even though he was the most effective Democratic president in over 40 years.
I think your concerns about a dynasty are unfounded. The fact that both Clintons now get pounded on this progressive website as vigorously as they get pounded by Sean Hannity and Ruch Limbaugh is a testament to the fact that the nation get "fatigued" easily.
Hillary Clinton is unable to even win her own party's nomination despite the advantages of a former president husband (who started out, anyway) so popular within the Democratic party. I think that kind of proves my point. The longer one stays in politics, the more toxic one typically gets politically, especially Democrats. I think Al Gore, Mike Dukakis, Walter Mondale, and John Kerry might agree. Democrats revolt against yesterday's Democratic hero much faster than Republicans do against their own heros. Reagan-worship has only grown among Republicans since the days of the Iran-contra scandal.
by dogtracks on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 12:02:38 PM PDT
Thanks for the retraction, I may have unintentionally taken a snotty tone with you initially so that was partially my fault, too; I've been arguing with some wingers on politico lately, and I may have been too much in that bomb throwing mindset when I replied to your post. We're all on the same side here, and plus, we know who our nominee is going to be, so there's no reason for real discord.
That said, I think the Obama campaign's ability to defeat her was a combination of a brilliant strategy, fortunate timing, the fact that a community organizer/vote-drive organizer was the candidate, and a hundred other factors without which Obama well could have failed; the more you look at how he beat her by exposing her primary strategy's weak spots, the more you realize that any other delegate approach by him would have resulted in failure. It took the jaws of life to defeat the Clinton campaign with all its institutional advantages, and so I must disagree that shelf life was what primarily did her in; she would have made it despite that factor if Obama hadn't done everything precisely the way he did.
But I agree about the way the Bushes have benefitted from Reagan nostalgia; I just can't ignore how unique in American history it is for every American under 50 not to have voted in a Presidential election that didn't result in a Bush or Clinton on the winning ticket. That's some serious business right there, as far as I'm concerned; there's no comparing that to the Roosevelt cousins or the Adams line, both examples that involved a full generation in between. When you consider that such a statistic applies to all Americans under 50 - more than half the country - it's not an experience I'd ever want us to repeat. That's all.
by ShadowSD on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 03:30:46 PM PDT
what all of you would be braying if Obama had never entered the race. If Hillary really WAS the best candidate running.
She isn't, not now. I voted for her in the primary. I will gladly vote for Obama in November.
But the tone of attack is completely unwarranted here. It's outrageous, ridiculous, Republican, neoconservative in spirit and effect, and Obama doesn't have to do the dirty work you're all doing for him.
Comparing the Clintons with the Bushes is the most undignified insult somebody could heap. It's beneath anyone but a mouthbreather. I hope the lemming mentality on display in here dissipates eventually, when Obama finally gets the nomination.
Republicans act like this, people--not progressives!
by DaddyO on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 11:39:18 AM PDT
Ambition, drive, relentlessnes ... these are not in themselves despicable.
What do we expect Bill C. to do? Roll over and play dead?
Outraged Conservatives: Stop Picking on McCain's Trollop
by Bronxist on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 08:57:06 AM PDT
Well, I expect him to take his $100 mil and go away. I don't feel any obligation to fulfill his fantasies or desires. Even if I did see the Clinton presidency as a good thing, I would see it as long since a part of the past, and feel it was time for new blood to emerge in our civic life. That's the baseline expectation, which isn't dependent on any assessment of his current behavior.
But when you go on to consider the damage he's doing to the Democratic Party, and particularly the destructive racial divide he's encouraging, it becomes imperative that our #1 National Narcissist be retired.
At this point, who can look at anything the Clintons are doing except in terms of monstrous ambition? Since when is that a good thing for all the rest of us?
by pundit on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 10:27:34 AM PDT
Bravo!
by Tex Kosmaniac Dem Lady on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 11:32:23 AM PDT
"there will be blood" reference ok on daily kos. one out of 8 million.
The irony is Michelle's story only happens in America, according to its most fervent patriots. Cindy McCain's happens in any country with concentrated wealth.
by Nulwee on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:04:48 AM PDT
At least he's drinking her milkshake...huhuhuhuhuh
The MSM is propaganda.
by mmuskratt on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:20:45 AM PDT
corpse at every funeral (Th. Roosevelt's daughther Alice talking about her father) - these words apply to Bill! Anyone seen his negatives lately?!
by Carthage on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:25:20 AM PDT
..would be her strongarming her way to the nomination and being abandoned by progressives and blacks. Then the fight will be not to lose as badly as Dukakis.
"A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having." --V
by moondancing on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 09:46:25 AM PDT
wide narrow
View Story | 446 comments