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and did it well; well done, O.
Wish it had not been necessary; but let's let the dust settle.
We're ready in Indiana!
by rock the ground on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:04:44 PM PDT
This man will make a GREAT president!
John W. McCain, Bush's third term.
by aaraujo on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:06:26 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
victory on Tuesday!
by rock the ground on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:07:30 PM PDT
How Rev. Wright Won and Lost in 72 Hours
Rev. overplayed his hand. I still find it hard to believe it was intentional, but the man went too far.
Why does God love Barack Obama? ~Jon Stewart commenting on the oil spill/hurricane that caused McC[ompl]ain to cancel visit to oil rig.
by Muzikal203 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:15:51 PM PDT
(tweedle dum and tweedle dee) are cursing to themselves,
"Damn, he (Obama) eluded our trap; Damn!"
Hillary and Hannity may not have directly conspired with one another, but both in their own ways have been working feverishly to use Rev. Wright as a weapon to destroy the Obama candidacy,
and the moron Wright recently became their willing dupe, because it suited Wright's own egomaniacal (and likely financial) fantasies.
The good Kossacks here realized exactly what was going on; the bad Kossacks (the Wright lovers) here were quite willing to have the entire Obama campaign go down the toilet as a referendum on "angry black man syndrome",
but they lost.
Bad Kossacks, we have your number now.
by BonzoDogBand on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:29:51 PM PDT
Clinton supporter invited Wright
Wright was invited to the National Press Club by a journalist and minister who supports Clinton. The Tribune reports that Wright was invited by Barbara Reynolds, a former USA Today editorial board member who has written on personal blog of her support for Clinton.
Wright was invited to the National Press Club by a journalist and minister who supports Clinton.
The Tribune reports that Wright was invited by Barbara Reynolds, a former USA Today editorial board member who has written on personal blog of her support for Clinton.
And this is probably just 1 of 50 things that Hillary's campaign has been doing behind the scenes to fan the flames of Wright for many weeks now.
by BonzoDogBand on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:43:29 PM PDT
how a Clinton operative set Rev Wright up to sandbag Obama and what a tool Rev Wright is (background theme here seems to be about some people who are born victims).
Not only each of Rush's talking points but in the same order as well
by entlord1 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:51:16 PM PDT
Wright-Reynolds-Hillary sandbag connection?
by BonzoDogBand on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:57:46 PM PDT
I have it on good authority that radicals within the powerful rightwing Jewish Lobby including [AIPAC] American Israel Public Affairs Committee are vexed, frustrated and displeased with Barack Obama's refusal to accept special interest money and consequentially seek his crucifixion. The concern is that the Senator's policy prevents them from exerting influence or extracting favor from his administration should he become the next President in these United States of America. In an effort to allay their fears, Senator Obama has offered his assurance that if elected, an Obama administration would not be a foe- yet this does not seem to halt their resistance to his candidacy. Reportedly, Senator Clinton's campaign saw an opening to exploit the Jewish community's apprehension and began stoking the anti-Obama fire behind the scene. In collaboration with the Clintons, they [the Jewish Lobby] dispatched a number of "candidacy assassinators" including former Clinton special counsel, Lanny Davis, Florida congress woman, Debbie Wasserman-Shultz, California congress man, Brad Sherman, CNN news anchor, Wolf Blitzer [vis-a-vis Lou Dobbs], Independent Senator, Joseph Lieberman, the far right crippled Washington Post Journalist, Charles Krauthammer and others to torpedo Obama's nomination bid. The above mentioned Jews were mandated to fan the flames of hateful passion against the Illinois Senator using demagoguery and nefarious spin of the Reverend Wright issue to toxify the American voters. Their mission is to convince the public that Obama would be unelectable in November due to his optics and alleged third party association to Rev. Farrakhan. This while simultaneously promoting Hillary as the only friend of Israel. It is also reliably reported that Democratic Jews are being counseled to vote for John McCain as a penultimate option should Senator Clinton not get the nomination. Take a look at the YouTube video where Rachel Maddow from Air America recently discussed the topic on her show. http://www.youtube.com/... African American Leaders dub the Jewish and Clinton's anti Obama campaign, "mean spirited" but so far have opted to remain restrainedly tentative. They however suggest hypocrisy when Governor Rendell [who happens to be a Jew] is able to extol the virtues of Minister Farrakhan by praising his "goodness" and still remains an embraced surrogate of Senator Clinton. Elected Democrats have also taken note and are increasingly frustrated with the Clinton's controversial tactics of infusing racial divide into the electoral process. Appalling is how they describe her alliance to hawkish groups including John McCain to annihilate a democratic colleague and worry that it provides damaging ammunition to their nemesis [the republicans] that could derail Obama's candidacy should he become the nominee. Some are even calling her conduct treacherous and privately accuse her of deliberately trying to sabotage the Democratic Party because of the unlikely odds of her fairly winning the nomination. Mrs. Clinton has also been criticized for taken the low road by exploiting the gender card to foster disharmony amongst the sexes. But who is willing to bell the Cat? After-all, the Clinton's wield influential power within the party and super delegates worry about political reprisals should they offer public criticism.
I have it on good authority that radicals within the powerful rightwing Jewish Lobby including [AIPAC] American Israel Public Affairs Committee are vexed, frustrated and displeased with Barack Obama's refusal to accept special interest money and consequentially seek his crucifixion. The concern is that the Senator's policy prevents them from exerting influence or extracting favor from his administration should he become the next President in these United States of America. In an effort to allay their fears, Senator Obama has offered his assurance that if elected, an Obama administration would not be a foe- yet this does not seem to halt their resistance to his candidacy. Reportedly, Senator Clinton's campaign saw an opening to exploit the Jewish community's apprehension and began stoking the anti-Obama fire behind the scene.
In collaboration with the Clintons, they [the Jewish Lobby] dispatched a number of "candidacy assassinators" including former Clinton special counsel, Lanny Davis, Florida congress woman, Debbie Wasserman-Shultz, California congress man, Brad Sherman, CNN news anchor, Wolf Blitzer [vis-a-vis Lou Dobbs], Independent Senator, Joseph Lieberman, the far right crippled Washington Post Journalist, Charles Krauthammer and others to torpedo Obama's nomination bid. The above mentioned Jews were mandated to fan the flames of hateful passion against the Illinois Senator using demagoguery and nefarious spin of the Reverend Wright issue to toxify the American voters. Their mission is to convince the public that Obama would be unelectable in November due to his optics and alleged third party association to Rev. Farrakhan. This while simultaneously promoting Hillary as the only friend of Israel. It is also reliably reported that Democratic Jews are being counseled to vote for John McCain as a penultimate option should Senator Clinton not get the nomination.
Take a look at the YouTube video where Rachel Maddow from Air America recently discussed the topic on her show. http://www.youtube.com/...
African American Leaders dub the Jewish and Clinton's anti Obama campaign, "mean spirited" but so far have opted to remain restrainedly tentative. They however suggest hypocrisy when Governor Rendell [who happens to be a Jew] is able to extol the virtues of Minister Farrakhan by praising his "goodness" and still remains an embraced surrogate of Senator Clinton. Elected Democrats have also taken note and are increasingly frustrated with the Clinton's controversial tactics of infusing racial divide into the electoral process. Appalling is how they describe her alliance to hawkish groups including John McCain to annihilate a democratic colleague and worry that it provides damaging ammunition to their nemesis [the republicans] that could derail Obama's candidacy should he become the nominee. Some are even calling her conduct treacherous and privately accuse her of deliberately trying to sabotage the Democratic Party because of the unlikely odds of her fairly winning the nomination. Mrs. Clinton has also been criticized for taken the low road by exploiting the gender card to foster disharmony amongst the sexes. But who is willing to bell the Cat? After-all, the Clinton's wield influential power within the party and super delegates worry about political reprisals should they offer public criticism.
It's the beginning of the second comment on this article:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/...
Brilliantly blessed are those who walk with courage through the depths of the own fear, for they will Love from the bottom of their heart.
by Craig Hickman on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:02:24 PM PDT
as being overly simplistic.
Last night on CNN Debbie W-S had an opportunity to really shove Wright down Obama's throat, and she declined to comment on such at all. She wouldn't touch it, and she was smart not to.
What a difference 24 hours can make.
by BonzoDogBand on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:40:15 PM PDT
by a "Proud Republican," (that's the user name) who also throws in a Christ-killer accusation against Jews for good measure. It drips with hatred, paranoia and conspiracy theory. Anyone who is right-wing is probably against Obama, and even some left-wing people are against him.
Anybody want to bet that Jewish Americans will vote for Obama in greater percents than non-Jews? I'll put $100 even money.
The Presidential election in the United States is virtually a zero-sum game. Perhaps it should be otherwise, but I'm not wasting my vote pretending. Obama 08
by Party Line Voter on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 09:06:17 PM PDT
more than I have seen elsewhere allegedly quoting from the lady in question's blog with her own comments about Obama.
by entlord1 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 03:34:54 PM PDT
how does
USA Today editorial board member who has written on personal blog of her support for Clinton.
become
a Clinton operative
?If you are going to suggest that every person who supports Clinton is an "operative" the same has to go for Obama. I'm an Obama supporter, but this is nonsense!
Jail to the Chief!
by SottoVoce on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:16:27 PM PDT
of the DC beltway game or not and pulls DC beltway levers to make things happen.
Duh.
by BonzoDogBand on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:27:55 PM PDT
This may have just backfired on them.
Wright's appearance and his totally outrageous and anti-Obama remarks gave Barack the opportunity, without looking like he was somehow caving into criticism, to sever all ties to him which he did this morning. Now Barack has his own "Sister Souljah" moment. This can only help Obama in the end.
Hillary, once again, too clever by half.
Actually, Wright couldn't have done Obama a bigger favor if he had planned it in advance.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. ~James Madison
by mjshep on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:54:59 PM PDT
10 days ago, before Wright went on his magical mystery tour (as O'Reilly calls it), the Wright storm cloud was still there in the background; it had not been throughly dispersed; it was still there, hovering over us, ready to rain on Obama as an available potent weapon for the GOP to use to take down Obama and some Dem downticket folks as well.
Now, the entire Wright storm cloud has been seeded, drained, and dispersed; it is gone, and the sun is now shining thru!
by BonzoDogBand on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:07:36 PM PDT
You were Mr. Gloom And Doom two days ago. You're Mr. Don't Worry Be Happy today.
Obama did what he had to do. We'll see how it plays out. But if you think he's going to turn the media narrative around with this presser, you have entirely too much faith in the media.
The nation's power structure feels VERY threatened by Obama. How else to explain the gang lynching he's been subjected to -- in which even nominal Democrats have happily participated? If you think one press conference is going to cause them to lay off the attacks, well...that's a wee tad naive.
It's all up to the voters. Will they see through the elites' agenda? We'll find out.
"Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."
by Buzzer on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 04:14:38 PM PDT
'Course I'm respectable. I'm old. Politicians, ugly buildings and whores all get respectable if they last long enough. Noah Cross, Chinatown
by Badabing on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 08:01:37 PM PDT
They all think that this is the death of Obama's campaign. If it is, I give up on this country. Because there is no reason why an egomaniac like Wright should be allowed to bring down someone as good and honest as Obama. If the people in this country are that dumb, then I guess whatever we get in return, which will probably be President McCain.
by Katiebegood on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:50:16 PM PDT
but by fall the truth will be out there, and anyone who brings it up will be made to look like an idiot. I wish we could all be as steady and cool as Obama.
Show your appreciation! Send him money! Right now! He needs to demonstrate big numbers for April and has just one more day. I think this is the best way possible for us to demonstrate our appreciation and continued support.
"Not this time"
by MsCasey on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:56:02 PM PDT
this - not real Democrats anyway.
by inclusiveheart on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 04:00:48 PM PDT
link
"I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle
by catnip on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:59:07 PM PDT
Chortling how he and his Dittos circumvented Obama by keeping Hillary viable with Operation Kaos. Kommander Krunch proudly announced his army of Dittos infiltrated and voted for Hillary in state after state, keeping her viable when without him, she would already be toast.
Now while I think Rush is more fueled by Oxy and Lorcet than reality, Kommander Krunch said that his Dittos in some cases wore street clothes and other times wore official uniforms (beanie was optional) but they also infiltrated by "stinking" and "not bathing" and making sure they were as offensive physically as possible.
Now since these Dittos were all supposedly registering as Democrats for the first time, what is the demographic of newly registered Democratic voters and why do I think I hear a dogwhistle?
This is more of a problem for American society than Rev Wright will ever present.
by entlord1 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:48:55 PM PDT
Rush had some impact, but the democratic registration advantages began long before he unleashed operation chaos which he did right before the texas ohio contests. Even when he was warning that "mccain is the antichrist vote for romney" more people voted in the democratic primaries and caucuses than republican ones, people have been registering as democrats in record #s since the 06 midterm elections.
by Johnnythebandit on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:35:10 PM PDT
examine the demographics of the new registrations and debunk Rush?
by entlord1 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 03:37:06 PM PDT
Who put you in charge of the "good" and "bad" lists?
"though we rush ahead to save our time- we are only what we feel" Neil Young- 1968
by blindyone on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:04:59 PM PDT
It might be nice to make a diary compendium of some of the most bizzare comments made here in support of Wright.
Would you like that?
Eh?
Back off clown.
by BonzoDogBand on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:14:22 PM PDT
Yeah, you are real mature and credible.
by blindyone on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 03:14:29 PM PDT
What are the Republican 527's going to do with this?
by richmond199 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:09:50 PM PDT
WrightGate only had legs to the extent that Wright was connected to Obama.
Kill that connection, and you kill WrightGate.
Connection killed.
by BonzoDogBand on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:24:06 PM PDT
since you are SO concerned
Anthropologists for human diversity; opposing McCain perversity
by Deoliver47 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:00:31 PM PDT
Does not doom Obama's candidacy, but if it did so what. What you liberals have always failed to understand about people of faith is that we really do hold ourselves to a standard higher than just the material idiots of this world. When we see injustice we must speak and act. If it were not for our attitude black people would still be at the back of the bus. In a sense though I'm glad. I hope now the Rev. Wright feels fully unconstrained to speak, and if Barack is going to be just another corporate shill I look forward to him going after him in January.
Justice for Lavena Johnson http://www.colorofchange.org/lavena/?id=2220-540750
by Adept2u on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:11:30 PM PDT
Hee hee, Rev. Wright can go speak to the Heritage Foundation.
I am sure they will just love him there.
by BonzoDogBand on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:19:18 PM PDT
doesn't speak for the black community.
by anamaria on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:34:26 PM PDT
Augustine's City of God. Being a person of faith doesn't absolve you of the task of being a responsible member of you earthly community. On the contrary, that responsibility is deepened. So, to say, "if my shooting off my mouth and indulging my narcissistic impulses results in the election of McCain, with all the resultant human suffering, then so be it" is emphatically not a loving, humane, spiritual attitude.
"I may have fucked my life up flatter than hammered shit, but I stand here before you today beholden to no human cocksucker."
by John R on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:46:28 PM PDT
give me a break... people of faith are mostly just full of hubris
by Capt Morgan on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 03:27:48 PM PDT
right-wing trolls never seem to understand is that using the phrase "you liberals" unerringly marks you as a right-wing troll.
Not very Adept, 2me.
--Shannon
by Leftie Gunner on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 04:51:59 PM PDT
I really dislike the way you are trying to break this down into two simply catagories of bad and good. It is far to black and white for my taste and doesn't reflect reality.
"It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said." "The War Prayer" by Mark Twain
by Quanta on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:33:10 PM PDT
somehow manipulated Wright to go on Moyers, got him invited to the Detroit NAACP and the Nat. Press Club. Also, I think I read someone that Hillary introduced Obama to Wright in the late 80's so she could put this story in her sink and throw it at him sometime in the future. This would be one of those left wing conspiracies.
by gaydar on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:51:29 AM PDT
It's Hillary's fault. We have to blame her for farrakn's rantings against Jews and homosexuals.
by anamaria on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:55:36 AM PDT
The good Kossacks here realized exactly what was going on; the bad Kossacks (the Wright lovers) here were quite willing to have the entire Obama campaign go down the toilet as a referendum on "angry black man syndrome", but they lost. Bad Kossacks, we have your number now.
I gotta say, I really have a problem with tarring our fellow Kossaks as 'good' and 'bad' based on their various positions on the Wright issue. I don't think any Obama supporters wanted the campaign to 'go down the toilet'. Rev. Wright's comments have prompted a pretty wide range of response among people here. The most disturbing thing I noticed among Kossaks prior to Obama's press conference was a frenzied, panicky sense of "All is LOST!!". As for Wright's behavior at the presser, it was almost universally denounced by Obama supporters.
And I'd love to know what you meant by "we have your number now." It sounds almost menacing.
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Ghandi
by Triscula on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 10:09:26 AM PDT
Hillary or that obnoxious Hannity has to do anything to destroy Obama. His spiritual pastor is doing a good job. republicans will be using him for a long time.
by anamaria on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 02:47:01 PM PDT
Rev. Wright rose in my estimation. After the Press Club Debacle, I thought to myself, is he channeling Redd Foxx, Richard Pryor, and Flip Wilson or what? Martin had it right. A for Detroit. F for DC.
by Hurd Hatfield on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:36:26 PM PDT
messing up and harming the Obama campaign at the NAACP gathering in Detroit, but, in any event, we dodged the bullet.
Whew.
And, Wright is finished. He is now garbage.
I hope the Wright-Reynolds-Hillary connection gets some airplay.
by BonzoDogBand on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:53:49 PM PDT
You high user ID# are showing a lot about yourselves right now. A person can support Obama without trashing Black people and the Black community.
by blindyone on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:07:37 PM PDT
I can't for the life of me see what is so different about Wright 10 years ago, 1 year ago or in his last speech with Q&A.
by gaydar on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:46:07 AM PDT
Most of what he said today was ok, especially because it was apparently NECESSARY, in order to get past all this. I was glad that he concentrated mainly on what Wright said yesterday at the Press Club. Obama didn't really have much bad to say about the Moyers interview or the NAACP speech. That's good. And I like the fact that Obama mentioned again that Wright and his church has done lots of good over the years. And even though Obama distanced himself from Wright, he did NOT "disown" the guy (even though a couple people on cable news are claiming that's what he did).
So overall, Obama did what he needed to do, and did it fairly well.
But I have one big problem with what Obama said. That being that he disagreed with Wright when he said that "American foreign policy can at times be equated to terrorism." Now I guess I shouldn't be too hard on Obama for that... since anyone running for president in this low-self-esteem-masked-with-patriotism country we live in MUST say stuff like that. But since I'm not running for office, I'll say it myself:
There have been times in our history, including at times what we're doing right NOW, that our foreign policy actions ARE something close to terrorism!
"Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media." -- Noam Chomsky
by ratmach on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:57:42 PM PDT
without deeming it terrorism and accomplish a heck of a lot more. We want to be credible --- equating the war in Iraq or Gitmo or even rendition with "terrorism" instantly discredits you. Why not just say, as Obama does, that the war was unjustified, Gitmo needs to be closed and America can not torture. It is more specific and I think more people will listen.
by mckeeka on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 03:45:17 PM PDT
policy (particularly that driven by the Pentagon) is morally equivalent to the logic that guides terrorists. The 'Shock and Awe' of the Iraq invasion was our version of 9/11 for Baghdad. And how much ordnance did we drop on N. VietNam. And let's not even talk about how Palestine is an Arab ghetto (in the WWII meaning of the word) that it is.
You may be right that it instantly discredits you in the mainstream world, and the 24/7 news cycle, but not in the history of ideas. there is a deep philosophical malaise in the centers of power in this country.
Ask yourself, who do you think the world is more afraid of Al Qaeda or the USA? It's not an easy question to answer. Let us rather pretend that we are morally unambiguous, righteous even. Let us pretend that that is the only acceptable way to approach these issues.
You think that by copying the the passionless, limpid framing of the MSM that we will be able to change anything. By assuming the narratives of power as they are structured, you assume and cultivate the power that is. The logic of power is much deeper than Kabuki democracy that we have now. Lest one be reminded of the national security state and the arbitrage generals that make us flow.
But you're right, no one will take us seriously, so why the eff should we take them seriously.
by Areopagitica on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 04:41:58 PM PDT
... just stand up there and say, "While some of the things Rev. Wright said were off the mark, and I don't agree with them, there were others, particularly regarding how our foreign policy decisions can affect what comes back on our nation, that are absolutely correct."
by ratmach on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:11:17 PM PDT
Do we want to address current American foreign policy or some meta-narrative - the"logic of power" as you call it? I personally would like to put out the fire in our house before we start rebuilding it.
Furthermore, I just think equating the United States with Al Qaeda is absurd. Does the American government have as its express purpose the destruction of the people of the Arab world? Does the American government wantonly and intentionally seek out civilian targets? Come on. It is possible to condemn Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, Rendition, Waterboarding, the Shock and Awe campaign without making inaccurate comparisons which don't just alienate MSM but most Americans as well. I am a decided progressive and an Obama supporter and your parallel between 911 and our invasion in Iraq makes me bristle. Yes we should not have gone in... yes the Iraqi casualties in the hundreds of thousands are something for which those directing the military policy will have to atone, yes to all of it. But collateral damage is different from striking civilians to strike fear in people's hearts. Bush and his cronies were wrong wrong wrong but I don't think they sat in the White House rejoicing in Iraqi civilian death. Intent matters.
I would never suggest that America's foreign policy of this last eight years is anything other than a moral disaster. But I won't call it terrorism because to do so is stupid. End of story.
by mckeeka on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:33:58 PM PDT
Do they intentionally kill innocent people? Probably not. But you probably think the main reason they wouldn't do that is because they CARE about them... that they would never "rejoice in Iraqi civilian death."
But I, on the other hand, think the ONLY reason Bush and his buddies don't intentionally kill innocent people is that it would be POLITICALLY unproductive to them to do so.
What I'm saying is this:
I believe that, if there was a good, political reason to do so, George W. Bush would GLADLY kill any number of people he felt he needed to. Women, kids, old men.... doesn't matter. Yes, I think the man is exactly that evil! I think you stick him in 1930's Germany, he could EASILY have been Hitler's right-hand man.
The "man" named George W. Bush is a worthless piece of flesh. I'd consider him even WORSE than your average terrorist, since at least they put their own lives at risk.
by ratmach on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:06:47 AM PDT
I absolutely think that Bush and cronies actions are morally reprehensible and some of the folks in his administration have no moral compass whatsoever. I don't really want to defend Bush here-- rather assess what ails him correctly. I do think he is callous and indifferent to the plight of Iraqi people but I don't think his intent is their demise. To me that makes a difference.
I dislike him too. I loathe Cheney and Rummy etc. I just do not want to speak in hyperbole that gets us nowhere. Paralleling Bush with Al Qaeda or Nazi Germany accomplishes nothing and just muddies the water. It is like Bush applying terms like "Islamic facism" that are essentially meaningless. Why can't we denounce him and his policies just like that, by saying they are WRONG WRONG WRONG?
I understand your anger. I think we agree on more than we disagree. I just think we progressives would do better to speak in calm and measured tones like our guy Obama. That's how we convince other Americans I think.
by mckeeka on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:35:44 AM PDT
At a bare minimum! Torture is most certainly a form of terrorism. And most people, other than Busheep, or course, agrees that the initial "shock and awe" campaign was a type of terrorism. "Shock and awe"!!! Can you believe they called it that? The intent was to frighten not only the Iraqi leadership, but also the Iraqi people, to such a degree that they would simply roll over and give up. Aka, terrorism. People all the way from a retired general to Noam Chomsky understand that.
And going back about 20 years, what do you call what we did (through surrogates) in Central America under Reagan. Terrorism pure and simple. I could give you about a dozen more examples if you like?
Now I realize someone running for president can't say these things. We are, after all, a nation who seems incapable of accepting the fact that WE can be just as bad as our enemies at times. But just because a candidate won't call some things "state sponsored terror", doesn't mean they aren't.
by ratmach on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:07:39 PM PDT
that to call American actions "during wartime" terrorist was a problem. This is different. I think he would probably agree (though not use those words) that, say, Gitmo was terroristic. Or Abu Garibh. or secret CIA detentions...etc. Since Wright was referring to US actions before 9/11, those don't count...
by dbhuff on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:22:31 PM PDT
Some things Wright specifically mentioned (if you watched the whole "chickens" sermon): Panama invasion (killing hundreds to capture a "drug dealer"); bombing Khadafi's home, killing his 3-yr-old kid; selling WMDs to Saddam; supporting death squads in Central America; supporting Botha's gov't in South Africa; etc, etc. How can you define that stuff in any way OTHER than "terrorism"?
by ratmach on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:30:34 PM PDT
Wright? He acts like a politician. He loves the spotlight and is no friends to anyone. With friends like tose...
by anamaria on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:32:33 PM PDT
was eloquent this morning when discussing Wright and he labeled it an unwillingness to pass the torch to a new generation. He then said words to the effect that with an uncle like that, Obama's opponents don't need 527's. It was brilliant and he even had Scarborough agreeing with him. Now we have Obama's eloquent denunciation today. Hillary must be beside herself because this will go away now-maybe not immediately, but it is no longer the "thing" that renders him "unelectable" in the fall. Sorry, Hill. Or not.
by MufsMom on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 04:40:23 PM PDT
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
by richmond199 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 04:39:20 PM PDT
go play in traffic
by Deoliver47 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 05:58:57 PM PDT
Obama can go away. he is more divisive than anyone.
by anamaria on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 02:44:07 PM PDT
This is my man!
by jjackso1 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:07:48 PM PDT
by rock the ground on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:10:18 PM PDT
an hour ago. Let's get this thing back in motion!
John McCain - I've Fallen And I Can't Get Up!
by kitebro on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:10:23 PM PDT
And more the day before!
Donate here: https://donate.barackobama.com/...
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi
by missLotus on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:14:33 PM PDT
for Obama.
by Libby Shaw on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:18:34 PM PDT
And you can do it too!!
There's also a limited edition Car Magnet, Poster, and DVD you could get :o)
by Muzikal203 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:18:48 PM PDT
And I just gave $100 yesterday as my monthly contribution - then another $15 this morning to get the car magnet - and after reading the transcript of his press conference. I dug DEEP for another $50.
It's ramen noodles for this supporter but they will be the sweetest tasting ramen noodles EVER when I see President Obama's inauguration.
Respect. Empower. Include.
by BDsTrinity on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:26:42 PM PDT
But I gave $15... Sorry, food and gas are kicking our ...
by Black Magic Woman on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:49:00 PM PDT
kicking and kicking and kicking -- don't apologize!
by rock the ground on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:52:24 PM PDT
by Muzikal203 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:06:21 PM PDT
...kicking all our asses. Thanks for your donation in tough times.
*John McCain is aware of the Internet*
by MichaelPH on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:10:49 PM PDT
Son, you're makin' the same mistake with Iraq that I did with your mother. I didn't pull out in time.
by fou on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:43:41 PM PDT
by al75 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 04:06:26 PM PDT
HT to MRL.
Newsweek poll up now on Obama's Wright presser.
Make your voice heard.
"A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government....President Bush has repeatedly violated the law for six years." Al Gore
by psnyder on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:12:03 PM PDT
by Libby Shaw on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:17:43 PM PDT
So far, "the damage is done" is winning.
Let's change this perception!!!!
"To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." Chinese writer Moh-Tze
by ILean Left on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:18:52 PM PDT
splits the non-damaged vote.
by Design the Future on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:26:14 PM PDT
I commented on that in another thread. Sneaky.
by Heart of the Rockies on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:39:12 PM PDT
... by Karl Rove, Inc.
Although, the majority doesn't think "the damage is done."
"People should not be afraid of their government; governments should be afraid of their people." --V
by MikeTheLiberal on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:43:34 PM PDT
in Polls??????
by anamaria on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:58:03 AM PDT
I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. -John Stuart Mill
by word player on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 09:05:49 AM PDT
Here's the current vote on this b.s. poll:
Democrat Barack Obama denounced the comments of his former pastor the Rev. Jeremiah Wright on Tuesday. How does that decision impact his campaign for the presidential nomination? * 17502 responses The damage is done. Obama waited too long to distance himself from Wright. 41% It doesn't matter. Americans understand they don't necessarily share the same opinions or values. 23% It may help. Voters worried about their relationship can rest easy now that he has publicly moved on. 36%
Democrat Barack Obama denounced the comments of his former pastor the Rev. Jeremiah Wright on Tuesday. How does that decision impact his campaign for the presidential nomination? * 17502 responses
The damage is done. Obama waited too long to distance himself from Wright. 41%
It doesn't matter. Americans understand they don't necessarily share the same opinions or values. 23%
It may help. Voters worried about their relationship can rest easy now that he has publicly moved on. 36%
As you can see, the positive vote is winning, at 59%... it's just split between two options that are not mutually exclusive.
In short: don't worry about it, it's just another dumb internet poll.
JOHN McCAIN = George W. Bush's 3rd term.
by chumley on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:49:37 PM PDT
swell idea. So at least they are historically consistent.
by entlord1 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:52:41 PM PDT
McCain will take away a woman's right to choose
by chimaeranyc on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:34:39 PM PDT
only garners 41%. The other two, positive to Obama are 59%. I think that the Hillaryites and the Republicans are going to be unhappy with that result.
by Katiebegood on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:59:54 PM PDT
by Black Magic Woman on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:54:58 PM PDT
Wright is into himself and has absolutely no regard for how a real change can be brought about in this country by likes of Obama. Instead of helping bring that change Wright thought of Obama as a threat to his hold on the black community. For Wright, what he will scream about if Obama becomes the president?
by Observer on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:14:36 PM PDT
...having a conniption when Joan Claybrook was appointed head of NHTSA in the Carter administration.
We're here to make our mark (and money) pointing out a problem, not try to solve it! How dare you try to slaughter our cash cow!
9-11 changed everything? Well, Katrina changed it back.
by varro on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:35:54 PM PDT
Obama seems to be taking down the "Clergy Only" sign in MSNBC's waiting room. Not to deny the role of the black clergy during the Civil Rights struggle, but now the nation has been gifted with an excellent African-American leader who is not an ordained member of the clergy. Our nation has probably been gifted with at least ten Barack Obamas, but for lack of a divinity degree and through the curse of white racism and its noxious brood, they have labored and died in relative obscurity.
I'm outside the African-American community, so I can only imagine, from a perspective twice removed, just how empowering the removal of a clerical monopoly can be. (It has done wonders in academia...)
Dems in 2008: An embarassment of riches. Repubs in 2008: Embarassments.
by Yamaneko2 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:18:58 PM PDT
Agree and thank you! When I saw the Rev. cracking jokes and mocking JFK I said what is he doing? I was laughing thinking the Hillbilly had paid him or something? Obama is the clear winner thus far unless the SD appoint Clinton. She cannot win and will do anything, but to get the Rev. to do this, well that might be too much, but who can tell! It is not over, but Obama will never be swiftboated by anyone, did you hear that, Hillbilly!
by peacefully on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:28:15 PM PDT
Rev. Wright is much too smart and savvy. From a decent showing on Moyers on Friday (?) to dazzling CNN on Sunday to the Press Club Fiasco on Monday...it was like he pulled a Hillary. This seems to be orchestrated so that Wright could show us how much sense he really makes, AND also allow BO to formally distance himself. Let's see if it works.
SANKOFA(Akan) "One must return to the past in order to move forward."
by MariaWr on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:34:03 PM PDT
for Obama to "Pastor Souljah" him. In some ways, going so far did him a favor.
In this case, though, at least Obama's reaction seems legitimate rather than the output of a process of calculated bidding for the anti-uppity vote.
John McCain's Court will overturn Roe; don't kid yourself.
by Seneca Doane on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:41:59 PM PDT
And it may help Obama in the end, but I don't think it was intentional on Wright's part. He doesn't seem the type to intentionally make himself look like a fool. Even if that's what he did.
by mjshep on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:01:36 PM PDT
He's aiming for a narrower audience than Obama is: Black voters, and mainstream journalists/bookers who are looking for another person to join the Sharpton/Jesse Jackson group. Or, more optimistically, he's hoping to become the Christian Louis Farrakhan -- I say "optimistically" because he's nowhere near as bad.
They are both catering -- sincerely, in my opinion -- to their target audiences.
by Seneca Doane on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:09:54 PM PDT
That whole "right brain/left brain" learning and the music thing was incredibly questionable science.
I grew up with African-Canadian kids (real African- Canadian, their father was from Ghana), black kids, Southeast Asian kids, Indian kids, and white kids, and there was nothing particularly genetic about the way they learned. Oh, there was cultural/family issues that had an effect, but nothing inherent other than their own individual potential. (In fact the five African-Canadian sisters all were tops of their respective grades, learning the "white" way, with the result being two Harvard medical school graduates and three lawyers).
While the topic of his speech, respecting differences, is worthy of acknowledgment, the details are rather iffy.
by Northwatch on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:17:00 PM PDT
I think that Wright has allowed his ego to take over. I really do think that he is jealous of Obama and the power he wields. I don't think he orchestrated this for Obama but I'm glad it happened. Now other than the people who will screech that Obama cut his ties with Wright because he is the dreaded "politician", I think this is a dead issue.
by Katiebegood on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 03:06:52 PM PDT
Narcissitic is exactly what Wright has become. This guy is single handedly doing more damage than anything else Hillary can come up with. It's time to cut him loose.
by Sean Casey on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 01:37:40 PM PDT
track it is sad that this had to be done
by chimaeranyc on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:16:42 PM PDT
..And now that Wright has shown his stripes, Obama can push off him for even more credibility with ordinary sane folk and otherwise good people who might be concerned about him.
Now let's start talking about sniper fire again...
fightbackbarack.com !
by carl kroger on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:38:26 PM PDT
what some White people wanted him to do. Senator Clinton's supporter Barbara Reynolds set up this speaking engagement at the NPC. So basically Rev Wright opened the door so that Senator Obama could denounce him clearly, loudly and completely.
But who wins? Journalism is not the same, they are not held accountable to provide Americans with objective information. They do not even call it truth they call it exactly what it is "SPIN". They do not want Senator Obama to talk about the issues they pushed, and pushed, Fox's entire 24 hours news channel was anti-Obama, anti Rev Wright and so now they have gotten what they wanted. Hillary Clinton's husband was closing a deal with the Colombians for $800,000 along with her Campaign manager working on the same deal, and this is our other choice.
Where is our critical thinking? Has Rupert Murdock bought it all?
WAKE UP AMERICA!!
by OH NOT AGAIN on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 02:43:34 PM PDT
wide narrow
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