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RACISM is a bigger problem for Obama than sexism for Hillary.
Its not a contest.
To me, the absolute most important issue ANY of us has, and this nation has, is that we are currently being ruled by a gang of immoral war criminals. -Hornito
by discocarp on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:15:17 AM PDT
Sailed right over your head.
The TRUTH is that Hillary's gender is NOT an issue in this campaign. Never has been.
Obama's race has. Denying that is to deny reality.
And Obama's got more to overcome than Hillary does. That's just a reality.
by Hesiod on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:17:23 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
I just don't agree.
I think this race has brought out a lot of racism and sexism that the party had managed to keep behind closed doors for a long time.
by discocarp on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:18:38 AM PDT
I think the "sexism" angle has been largely manufactured.
Is Chris Matthews a sexist pig? Yes.
He also thnks it'ss no surprise that Barack Obama sucks at bowling and is good at backetball.
This is about Hillary -- not the fact that she's a woman.
I don't assume that Taylor Marsh is a racist because she attacks Barack Obama all the time.
by Hesiod on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:20:50 AM PDT
is right. And it's all the more insulting BECAUSE sexism still exists and hurts lots of women. We can hold many thoughts in our head at the same time. I actually do think there is a male "vibe" to political blogging and that for whatever reason, women are underrepresented. They are underrepresented in the senate too, of course. But that does not cause or correlate to an idea that Clinton is being unfairly targeted because she's a woman. And that's the point of this--it's not that you can't disagree with someone or attack them--but you have to do it fairly or people won't listen to you anymore.
How many times has Pelosi (or Reid) been called a wimp or Brazile (or Carville) a hack, or Feinstein (or Lieberman back in the day) a DLC shill? How many times were they defended by someone saying "that's so sexist that you disagreed with her"? Um...yes...
Barack Obama will only become president if enough people pay attention, so pay attention, dammit!
by JMS on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:39:53 AM PDT
I'm not sure how electing the former First Lady as President is a huge stride for women, exactly.
How about electing a woman with her own accomplishments that got where she was because of her own merits, and not because she was married to a former President?
You know, someone like Nancy Pelosi!
Hillary's folks like to cpompare her to Margaret Thatcher. But Thatcher paid her dues and climbed the ranks of the opposition benches in Parliament before becoming Prime Minister.
And she didn't have a famous name or spouse to aid her.
The comparison is specious.
by Hesiod on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:47:46 AM PDT
do not like or admire Hillary Clinton, does not make her a bad person, or a bad role model. Let go of the right wing media narrative and do some real research.
by Jjc2006 on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:15:14 AM PDT
Got advanced degrees in science (chemistry, I think) from Oxford in the 1950s. Doubt she had a lot of sisterhood support there. Wellesley, 1960s, it wasn't.
by pletzs on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:52:45 AM PDT
... in the leadership department. Not that I would give her high marks either. But she clearly makes a far better Speaker of the House than Harry does as Senate Majority Leader.
Every time I see Reid issuing his mealy-mouthed apologies and statements at pressers or on the Senate floor, I just have to cringe. It's almost like he wants to beg forgiveness just for taking up space on the Earth.
As for sexism, it may not be as blatant as the racist garbage Obama has to deal with, and you may not see it, but it is definitely out there. I really, really dislike Hillary just for what she represents as a politician, but I also see a LOT of sexist slurs applied to her that would never be used to describe a man. Her laugh, for instance. When was the last time you heard a man's laugh called a "cackle"? Much of this is a petty way of belittling her for who she is as a person, and I can easily understand why so many women would feel personally offended by that.
We should be able to oppose Sen. Clinton without being jerks about it.
by philimus on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 08:09:23 AM PDT
I've witnessed thus far has come from Hillary supporters (via postings at various blogs). So many cite Hillary's sex as a contributing factor re: their support of her.
Sexism -->
by bsmalls on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:02:40 AM PDT
told Hillary to iron theior shirts, oh wait a minute. And BTW you might want to edit your title before an admin has to do it for you.
Because I won't trade humanity for patriotism!
by Drewid on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:19:13 AM PDT
by Hesiod on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:21:43 AM PDT
Funny never heard about those guys again and it helped HRC...hmmmm
Save Our Daughters
by kiki236 on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:23:37 AM PDT
..at an Obama rally and started calling him a "nigger."
His poll numbers would jump about 10 points.
by Hesiod on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:25:46 AM PDT
shock jocks that did it for a prank. The information is out there. Implying that anything that happens in a rally is cooked up by the candidate is unseemly.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard. -=-H. L. Mencken
by crazyshirley2100 on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:31:04 AM PDT
...did it as a joke! And this is evidence of sexism in the DEMOCRATIC PARTY!
by Hesiod on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:35:44 AM PDT
had a Hillary sticker on his bag. I wouldn't be surprised if Hillary was in cahoots with the radio show.
by TLS66 on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:37:18 AM PDT
about getting away from this kind of stuff and sticking with what is important, like getting out of the war, keeping people in their homes and better education for our children.
I am not going to play the I wouldn't be surprised game with anyone.
by crazyshirley2100 on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:19:57 AM PDT
This race has become a popularity contest. And in a beauty contest, all the disagreements are skin-deep and superficial.
I personnally cant wait for the general and a return to actual policy discussion.
Help us spread the Truth about Barack Obama
by Unseen majority on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:40:02 AM PDT
Got a problem with my posts? Email me, and let's resolve it.
by drbloodaxe on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:13:12 AM PDT
...to rec this.
That there are seven though, pretty stunning.
by TooFolkGR on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:37:07 AM PDT
by Hesiod on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:39:04 AM PDT
The candidate I've given my hundreds of $ to isn't Hillary. (hint: He's blacker and has a penis). Don't assume that just because someone doesn't live in the same fishbowl as you that you know which candidate they support.
by TooFolkGR on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:43:35 AM PDT
...for crossing the pro-Hillary diarist picket line to post pro-Hillary diaries and comments?
by Hesiod on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:52:59 AM PDT
I was called a "Scab" for the same reason you're calling me a "Hillary Shill." Because even though I support Obama based on his positions, his leadership abilities, and his potential for helping us downticket, I don't worship him and consider every single person who hasn't endorsed him to be a racist. In short I'm a "mainstream" Obama supporter vs a "mainstream DailyKos" Obama supporter.
The part about the "Pro-Hillary" diary is just silly. I've never posted one of those anywhere. She's always been my absolute second-to-last ranked Democratic candidate in the primary (over Gravel).
by TooFolkGR on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:59:08 AM PDT
Or your attitude, which is curiously hateful. By the way, you and your wife should try to remember that you too will be 60 years old some day, if you are lucky. Although your "point" is indefensible, you do not help your case by spewing ageist crap.
Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse. ~ Lily Tomlin
by vigilant meerkat on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:40:06 AM PDT
But the numbers are the numbers. They are what they are.
Hillary does best among older white women and Democratic ethnic white working class men in states with a history of racial tensions outside of the old South.
by Hesiod on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:57:52 AM PDT
How in the world does that "fact" justify your self-confessed ageism? I'm not getting it. Do you really think that all "older white women" are Hillary supporters? And even if they are, which is highly unlikely, why would you hate and scorn them on that ground? Prejudice is prejudice. You are engaging in it. Look in the mirror before you start calling out others on that basis.
by vigilant meerkat on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:40:43 AM PDT
http://www.dailykos.com/...
by Hesiod on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:43:05 AM PDT
you do not know the difference between opinion and fact.
In your opinion, race is a bigger obstacle than gender is. You are allowed to have an opinion. Many may disagree but that's OK.
Facts is that the numbers comparing the female electorate to their representation in government show a huge disparity....much greater than than the current disparity between African American electorate and African American representation.
As well, African American males come in second to Caucasian males in earnings, while Causcasian women and African American women follow.
These stats are readily available. If I did not have to leave for work, I would link. But let's at least be honest here.
It is NOT a contest. Sexism is just as bad as racism. But sexism is still acceptable in the public arena. One only has to tune into MSNBC and other "news" channels to see and hear it. If any of them used racism the way they openly used sexism against candidates, they would have been fired.
So get over yourself and your own biases and deal.
by Jjc2006 on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:14:04 AM PDT
I am not arguing that sexism doesn't exist. I am arguing that sexism is NOT the barrier to Hillary that her supporters keep claiming it is.
And, frankly, not even Hillary believes that or she wouldn't be going around arguing to superdelegates that SHE is more electable than Obama because of "sensitive" reasons [i.e. He's black -- and a bunch of racist white dudes in swings states won't vote for him].
by Hesiod on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:37:31 AM PDT
Had just posted a comment below and then just read this one. I fully agree with you.
And would add that, to be fair, Hillary needs to discuss and address how she will overcome her own high negatives which have persisted for years. At least Obama has the track record of showing how his poll numbers increase when election day approaches--while Hillary's poll numbers go in the opposite direction.
We're in a culture that increasingly holds that science is just another belief. - Alan Alda
by sawgrass727 on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:41:49 AM PDT
If sexism has been nonexistent, then your diary statement would be:
Racism is a problem for Obama and sexism has not been a problem for Hillary.
I think you got it right the first time. Sexism has been out there but not as overtly as racism, at least not in Democratic quarters this primary season. You're right about that.
For example, I think I've read everything Kos has written about Hillary and none of it comes close to touching on a element of sexism. If I am wrong, I would hope that Taylor Marsh gives evidence to her accusations.
BTW: Where'd you get that quote for Taylor Marsh? I can't find it in your links and not via Google search.
by sawgrass727 on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:35:45 AM PDT
Doh, don't know how I missed it the first time I read the first link.
by sawgrass727 on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:37:37 AM PDT
listen to Taylor Marsh? She's a delusional idiot with a podcast who thinks she's a radio personality.
I'm not Red-state, small-state, black, rich, volvo-driving, latte-drinking, birkenstock-wearing, or caucus-going. What's your excuse for how *I* voted?
by Rorgg on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 06:40:18 AM PDT
wide narrow
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