Daily Kos

View Story | 220 comments

  •  I am agreeing with you. (0+ / 0-)

    You state that it is due to the Economic policies of the United States that we drag the people to come to the United States, and then we punish them for coming here. Our encomic system, as you put it actively encourages people to come here. So we're at fault as a country for bringing the people here. We cannot fault people for coming then, and breaking laws we then set up, right? I am agreeing with you. I mean, it's not like people have a free will to decide what is the right or wrong behavior, or the right to choose a specific action or not. I do not see what you're so mad at...

    Homer: The lesson is: Our God is vengeful! O spiteful one, show me who to smite and they shall be smoten.

    by BFSkinner on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:21:04 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  And That Is Exactly The Problem (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Nightprowlkitty

      I hear "talking heads" mention it all the time now, but in say 1995 I knew of places you could go in Northern Virginia and there would be dozens of most likely illegals looking for construction work. Often the labor they provided was skilled to say the least (I know people that used them).

      I mean when it is that out in the open. That public. We have issues we have to deal with that are more than just people coming to our nation without the correct paperwork.

      •  Yea... damn us for giving people opportunities (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        webranding, immigradvocate

        Homer: The lesson is: Our God is vengeful! O spiteful one, show me who to smite and they shall be smoten.

        by BFSkinner on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:31:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh please. (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          dancewater

          Our policies in Mexico alone are destroying jobs for workers there.

          Read davidseth's diary: NAFTA and Corn: Destroying Mexico.

          Or read this one: Mexican Farmers Protest NAFTA:

          Andrade is typical of Mexican farmers who grow corn for subsistence.  I've written about this extensively here and the inescapable conclusion is that NAFTA is making Mexican farmers leave their homes and emigrate the the US.  That's right.  US economic policy is directly forcing farmers to leave their homes and migrate to the US, with or without documents.

          Yeah, right, we're just angels here in the US, aren't we?

          And that is only one of the bad policies the US has promoted that is a root cause of undocumented workers coming to the US.

          You don't know anything about this issue ... yet you sure have a lot to say.  Poor you.

      •  How do you separate the issues (0+ / 0-)

        We have issues we have to deal with that are more than just people coming to our nation without the correct paperwork

        Of trade, labor rights, economic policy, etc. from the issue of immigration, both illegal and legal?

        I don't think you can, although the Democratic Party presidential candidates have been doing a great job trying to do just that.

        There are people right here on Daily Kos who believe that Governor Richardson would be just a peach as a VP candidate, but when you ask them about the Governor having whipped the votes for NAFTA, NAFTA's impact on Mexico and the consequent illegal immigration from Mexico into the US, Governor Richardson's support for 'comprehensive immigration reform', his version doing little more than writing new law which cannot be enforced and legalizing 'the 12 million' -- they have very little to say.

        If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

        by superscalar on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:34:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I Don't Seperate The Issues (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Nightprowlkitty

          Of trade, labor rights, economic policy, etc. from the issue of immigration, both illegal and legal?

          They are 110% interrelated. IMHO there are a lot of things that need to be done, but by far the first is to make the punishment of firms that hire illegal immigrations so painful none will continue to do it.

          When enforcement of the law is rare and the punishments far less expensive then hiring US, union labor, well the problem of illegal immigrations will never end.

          •  So you don't want the Federal Government (0+ / 0-)

            When enforcement of the law is rare and the punishments far less expensive then hiring US, union labor, well the problem of illegal immigrations will never end.

            Enforcing immigration law, but you are perfectly happy to have the employers do it.

            The reason that the I9 Form was created in 1986 was to make both the employer and the employee equally responsible in the hiring process.

            I invite you to read an I9 Form, especially the part which says:

            I am aware that federal law provides for imprisonment and/or fines for false statements or use of false documents in connection with the completion of this form.

            I attest, under penalty of perjury, that I am (check one of the following):

            -- A citizen or national of the United States
            -- A lawful permanent resident
            -- An alien authorized to work until

            If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

            by superscalar on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:53:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  The best solution for stopping illegals (0+ / 0-)

          You hit upon it...

          1. It is the fault of the United States, we make people come here because we give people opportunities and chances to make money.
          1. People come here, since they have no free will, since we make them by holding big American bucks, that overcome any and all free will they might have.
          1. This causes harms to puppy dogs, childrens, and all matters of cute little things, and is due to evil, baby killing Republicans.
          1. The solution? PUNISH big business, bankrupt them, tax them to death, run them out of the country. Simple. Punish the companies. Make America not the land of these companies, so people will not be temped to come here, so then we will not be at fault for people coming here.
          1. Problem solved!

          Homer: The lesson is: Our God is vengeful! O spiteful one, show me who to smite and they shall be smoten.

          by BFSkinner on Mon May 12, 2008 at 03:39:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not unduly punishing the companies (0+ / 0-)

            to enforce our own labor standards, wage standards and so on.

            the entire problem with free trade is not that it exists, it is that we do not enforce our basic labor standards to nations we do business with. It is not free trade if a foreign nation can employ people at substandard wages, working them in inhumane conditions and so on.

    •  It is posts like the one (4+ / 0-)

      above by BFSkinner that make me wonder if Americans have any morality at all.

      You state that it is due to the Economic policies of the United States that we drag the people to come to the United States, and then we punish them for coming here. Our encomic system, as you put it actively encourages people to come here. So we're at fault as a country for bringing the people here. We cannot fault people for coming then, and breaking laws we then set up, right?

      Yeah, they should have stayed home and listened to their children cry from hunger all night long rather than break some stupid  American laws made to entrap them.  Too bad the US policies made the kids hungry, right?  Tough luck for them.

      You sicken me.

      (¯`*._(¯`*._(-IMPEACH-)_.*´¯)_.*´¯)

      by dancewater on Mon May 12, 2008 at 04:47:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

View Story | 220 comments