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...is reflective of "why liberals have a difficult time winning this group."
Thanks. How do you cart around that brush with which you paint, seeing that it's so damn broad?
The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.
by DHinMI on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:39:21 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
but agreement with the poster's sentiment runs deep and wide round these parts.
by billysumday on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:41:13 AM PDT
That somehow what people post in comments at Daily Kos explains why working class whites may or may not vote for Democrats?
To be proven wrong, you first have to make a coherent argument that can be engaged.
BTW, outside of the south, working class white voters have tended to vote Democratic. And even if you figure in the south, we generally do OK with working class/lower middle class white voters. It's with middle income, moderately educated (more than HS/less than 4 year degree) white voters where we've been getting waxed, especially in the South.
I eagerly await your argument. In the meantime, all I have is a self-righteous insinuation based on a false premise.
by DHinMI on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:51:08 AM PDT
without these poor, racist, ignorant voters in Appalachia, we should write them off. Fuck 'em, they're inbreds.
And THEN we wonder why they won't vote for Democrats. This attitude is ALL OVER dkos - just reread a third of the posted diaries from yesterday.
Maybe Obama can win in November without any support from these people. But is that any reason to say "I don't care about those people?"
I don't want to be a part of that.
by billysumday on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:58:13 AM PDT
What are YOU asserting? You're assuming that we don't win among working class white voters--which outside of the South is demonstrably wrong--and then blaming it on attitudes of disdain toward working class whites. In other words, whether you realize it or not, you're using the GOP elitist argument, which was adopted directly from George Wallace.
But none of what you're saying is really an argument. You're just spewing banal (and inaccurate) talking points.
by DHinMI on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:03:14 AM PDT
about the demo being poor, racist, ignorant, inbred, or from Appalachia. That must be your own projecting.
by 7426 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:05:19 AM PDT
in Oregon, or Missouri, or Illinois or Vermont.
Appalachia is where Obama has trouble. Period.
The sleep of reason brings forth monsters. --Goya
by MadScientist on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:17:56 AM PDT
EVERYONE in Vermont is a rich person from New York! It's Bernie Sanders, Ben and Jerry and a bunch of other rich New Yorkers.
Oh, and I think Bob Newhart and Larry, Darrel and Darrell. But everyone else in Vermont, they're rich.
by DHinMI on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:40:27 AM PDT
That this Vermonter is in the same boat as Larry, Darrel and Darrell! I've been doing an informal survey of my middle-class neighborhood and only one of us is rich, we only have one Volvo on the block and most of us drink our coffee black instead of as a latte. And get this: most of us work for a living!
We must be the singular exception to the rule in here in VT!
by 7426 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:55:53 AM PDT
The diarist paints with a brush wider than the Santa Monica Freeway and you call this commenter to task??
Perhaps you should reread the diary with your own comment in mind.
by johnnygunn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:51:36 AM PDT
by billysumday on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:53:58 AM PDT
...that I have to call out every single specious diary or comment, or the rule that my failure to do so diminishes anything I do happen to say.
Also, my comment has nothing really to do with the subject of the diary, it has to do with the use of bullshit arguments like "this diary is an example of what causes something that doesn't really happen but which I'll argue does happen." Extrapolating from Daily Kos to make broad generalizations has always bugged the heck out of me, especially when someone engages in that crap to accuse Democrats of being elitist.
Sincerely, Product of a Working Class White Family and Neighborhood
by DHinMI on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:55:59 AM PDT
"I don't care about white, working class blue-collar voters," is elitist? Go back to yesterday. Read the diaries posted on the front page at dkos. A majority of diarists are completely willing to write off large swaths of the country and the electorate simply because they are unwilling to vote for the guy that we all happen to like. It's not only wrong, it's dumb. A frustratingly stupid, short-sighted strategy that consists largely of "Fuck you, retards!"
by billysumday on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:00:38 AM PDT
No.
But you're asserting that we lose working class white voters .
Outside the South, we in fact WIN among working class white voters.
You're asserting that it's diaries like this which is why something happens (even though you're wrong, because it doesn't happen).
What I do or don't think about the diary doesn't improve your poor reasoning and command of facts on this matter.
by DHinMI on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:05:30 AM PDT
You sound very offended by my accusations! We shall duel in the alley!
I'm glad you're picking a fight with me and not with the guy whose diary implies we should give up trying to win white working class diaries. I mean, if only you could convince ME that I'm wrong, the Dems would certainly start winning more demographics! And let's not try to change the pervasive thinking that working class white people deserve the shit they get for voting Republican - I mean, what a bunch of tards!
by billysumday on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:10:50 AM PDT
I'm really not objecting to what you may or may not believe about class and elections as much as I'm ridiculing your notion that diaries at Daily Kos are reflective of, or even the causal factor driving voting trends that go back 40 years.
You keep avoiding that aspect of what I'm writing, which tells me you know your comment was silly and you're trying to deflect attention from that aspect by engaging me in a dispute about the content of the diary, or that you just aren't very good at this reasoning stuff.
by DHinMI on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:16:26 AM PDT
It's called logical consistency. When a diary makes huge generalizations about a group of people, it is not especially logical to nitpick one word in one comment.
Meh.
Fondly, My working class credentials are better than yours. And a Puerto Rican neighborhood, too. Pffffft!
by johnnygunn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:01:23 AM PDT
I'm not logically consistent in pointing out a single logical inconsistency unless I point out every logical inconsistency that everyone has?
Ludicrous. I hope you're just trying to salvage what you perceive as a "win" in a dispute, and that you don't actually believe something that ridiculous.
by DHinMI on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:07:20 AM PDT
I know your heart is in the the right place. But we have disagreed from day one.
by johnnygunn on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:14:03 AM PDT
But that doesn't mean you don't look like a jackass when you focus in on one guy who's doing what most everybody here does.
MY McCain / "Dungeons & Dragons" Character Sheet - "Funster" - L6 Male Human Rogue - S15/D18/Co16/I13/W10/Ch11 - FEAR MY UNCANNY DODGE OLD MAN!
by TooFolkGR on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:02:46 AM PDT
...whether you think I look like a jackass.
Whether jackasses think I look like a jackass doesn't concern me.
by DHinMI on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:08:44 AM PDT
I've read most of your articles.
by TooFolkGR on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:14:45 AM PDT
This place is built on a foundation of broad brush-strokes. The diary list is full all day long of people making broad generalizations about how their view reflects on the whole world. Why are you picking on this one guy?
by TooFolkGR on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:55:01 AM PDT
...things that never actually happened to have happened, starting decades ago.
Thanks for that as well.
by DHinMI on Wed May 14, 2008 at 07:57:43 AM PDT
In acknowledging that the media is obsessed with a portion of the electorate far beyond that portion's ability to impact the outcome?
by 7426 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 08:12:20 AM PDT
wide narrow
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