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:-)
by TallJames on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:16:14 AM PDT
by ObamaManiac2008 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:20:31 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
I'm soooo impressed.
So will we still get the "Obama Should," diaries?
Rupert Murdoch is on the Associated Press Board of Directors!!!
by Lava20 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:20:04 AM PDT
the words 'Obama should...' from my vocabulary
Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself... Mark Twain
by jedley on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:21:37 AM PDT
With Blue skies ahead, yes I'm on my way... And there's nowhere else I'd rather be
by DarthParadox on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:17:43 AM PDT
HOPE: It's the new black. And it's WINNING!!
by Samwoman on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:10:55 AM PDT
I expect the remaining rollout to be superbly orchestrated. In states he has won, he has 11 Senators to her 5, and two thirds of all remaining DNC and Add-on supers.
She will win Kentucky, but expect the next big endorsements to flow after he reaches 1627 PDs on Tuesday. Then he gets Pelosi.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were also some high publicity Clinton defections, like Maria Cantwell (Sen-WA) who is also in the Pelosi club.
And we still have 4 DPLers who would make extraordinary endorsements for these extraordinary times.
I know some will say that Gore and Carter won't support until the convention. But the times have changed. When these comments were made these two supers didn't know about the Clinton plan to drag the party through the mud.
Next week, we'll see fireworks. Edwards was the lynchpin, the big fish for the new unity theme of bringing the party together.
Obama as maestro orchestrating this long-awaited end. Yes, let's stop second guessing the campaign and the man. He's got the plan.
Patrick
by PatrickBradish on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:58:30 AM PDT
in Obama's intelligence and foresight reassures me far more than the 'delegate math' we've all been recycling ad nauseum since February, undeniably concrete though it is. i wonder why? is it because i instinctively sense that the physical world can change in an instant, but that destiny cannot be altered? am i really willing to buy that? yeah, i think i am!
by jedley on Thu May 15, 2008 at 03:33:27 AM PDT
'cuz if the Bush years have taught me anything, it's that things like math & science ain't worth shit anymore . . .
by Roadbed Guy on Thu May 15, 2008 at 04:48:07 AM PDT
....the thinking analyzing person's kind. Rec'd with thanks
by BlueStateRedhead on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:01:22 AM PDT
"wow, this guy is way smarter than us, let's stop thinking" was just a tad troubling . . .
Clearly, he has assembled a top-notch, politically-savvy campaign team. Bravo on that.
Some other things - his hyper-religiousity for example - doesn't seem all that super intelligent to me (perhaps politically savvy once again to dispel the "he's a muslim" meme . . . but really, believing in an imaginary friend in the sky, how intelligent is that?).
In any event, I suspect the collective wisdom of DK remains the match of Mr. Obama Big Brain on any given thursday morning . . ..
by Roadbed Guy on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:32:13 AM PDT
come on, the gist is not 'let's stop thinking', but rather 'he's proven we can trust him'
by jedley on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:51:59 AM PDT
That even though we think that we know what he SHOULD do, he already has thought it through and knows when and where the correct action will make the most difference. On Larry King last night even the Clintonites were spouting that this was a masterful political move.
It is not don't think, it is not Trust me, it IS respect me, and i will EARN your respect.
Dennis: Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed! King Arthur: Bloody peasant! Dennis: Oh, what a giveaway!
by wargolem on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:12:25 AM PDT
another way is Obama's brutal beating on Tuesday shook up the Washington establishment that supports him. The solution was to hurriedly bring in a white guy to accompany Obama to small towns where those bitter racists live with their guns and religion. Edwards had just said on Sunday he wouldn't endorse until all the people had voted and that endorsements were essentially meaningless. Edwards endorsement Wednesday suggests desperation in the Obama camp.
by katz5 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:31:33 AM PDT
with 3-5 new supers every day since NC/IN, way ahead in every category, 92% odds at intrade.com and even the corporate media having called the race
thank god there was a white guy to save him!
by jedley on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:51:45 AM PDT
The Washington and media establishment support Obama and will continue rolling out the SDs. btw - that's the same Washington establishment Obama claims he'll "change."
by katz5 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 02:44:01 PM PDT
Race and gender has nothing to do with it. This was the Obama campaign using a high-profile super-delegate to trump the talking heads before they could coordinate the direction of the spin; the Lazy Media already had HRC coronation pieces pre-scripted and ready to run, and the timing of the "leak" had them scrambling to drop their canned pieces in order to put them live at the Michigan event where Mr. Edwards announces his support.
-8.88, -7.77 THERE IS DEFINITELY NO THREAT WORTH SUSPENSION OF CIVIL LIBERTIES.
by wordene on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:52:15 AM PDT
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
nice try, though.
"A time comes when silence is betrayal." ~ MLK, Jr.
by liberaldemdave on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:33:39 AM PDT
I came to the conclusion several months ago that Obama is smarter than me. And I think that he is basically a good person with generally liberal/progressive ideals. I am excited to see what he will do as president.
But he has already taken public positions that I disagree with strongly. I will not shut up about it. Maybe it's just a political reality in this country that politicians need to suck up to Israel. I think it's bullshit.
Obama is smart and will deal with political realities. One reality will be a lot of pressure from the right. He needs to feel pressure from the left too. It's hard to apply pressure when you see your role as keeping quiet and trusting Dear Leader.
Chomsky Fever! John McCain sucks.
by miasmo on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:29:54 AM PDT
I still chuckle when I remember John Stewart's line on elitims, "I want my president to be embarrassingly superior to me."
Yay! The top 1% likes us better now!
by freshair2 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:58:25 PM PDT
But he is so much nicer than I am. More thoughtful and inclusive and less knee jerk.
I do want someone who is better than I am to be president. I trust that Obama is and I respect him for it.
by ZenTrainer on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:31:39 AM PDT
Firesign
fouls, excesses and immoderate behavior are scored ZERO at Over the Line, Smokey!
by seesdifferent on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:14:24 AM PDT
politics from policy.
I want Obama to listen to people on matters of policy-- Iraq, energy, etc.
But when it comes to politics-- picking a VP, responding to criticism, where to fly next-- that's up to him and his staff. The various "Obama must pick X as his running mate" diaries are kind of silly
And now a word from the National Paint, Varnish and Lacquer Association
by Olds88 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:58:35 AM PDT
You may think that all people of professed religion are the same, but I beg to differ.
Regardless of your opinion of Obama's "imagination," Obama does not impose his religious views on anyone else, nor does he make calculated shows of piety in an effort to attract votes.
OTOH the PNAC administration not only imposes a particular view on others (and a hypocritical view, I might add), it shamelessly uses the sincere faith of many as either a club, a lever, or both.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who know binary and those who don't. (-5.25, -4.97)
by JBL55 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:58:57 AM PDT
"Obama does not impose his religious views on anyone else"
But totally disagree on
"nor does he make calculated shows of piety in an effort to attract votes"
If not, why does he play up his "faith" on his campaign website?
And what the fuck is up with this?
It looks like a debate on science and environmental issues won't be happening between Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John McCain -- although the Dems have agreed to one on moral issues. So they will talk faith, but not science ?
link
Why would eschew the primary factor - science and technology - that has made America great over the past 150 years talk about something - faith and morality - constitutionally outside the realm of the presidency?
Not naked pandering? huh?
(note that this is not a slam on Obama, his competetition is worse, but still, it'd be nice to have just slightly higher standards . . .)
by Roadbed Guy on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:22:10 AM PDT
has increased as the press and some portions of the public have pushed him on it. The Wright nonsense was the tipping point. And after that he injected it more and more into his speeches. A recent Pew study indicated that the public considers atheists least acceptable, of all demographic sub-groups, for office. Talk about ignorance and prejudice!
When Obama first burst on the national scene as a possible presidential candidate, one thing that bothered me was that very conservative friends in Illinois loved him because he was so religious. This gave me pause. Still gives me pause. I do not like to see religion--a private matter--as part of the political campaign. The men who wrote the First Amendment to the Constitution argued quite forcefully that religion was a matter of individual conscience. And gave many reasons why that should be so. I recently took a class where we examined many of the documents related to the two religion clauses of the First Amendment and various First Amendment court decisions since then. It is amazing how Jefferson's "wall" between church and state has been eroded.
I remember when people were interviewed regarding their support for Bush and they said he was a "god-fearing Christian" and that was enough for them. He's proven to be so moral and ethical, hasn't he?
by Heart of the Rockies on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:58:43 AM PDT
about religion then they do about science and technology?
Someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago. Warren Buffett (1930-, American Investment Entrepreneur)
by Amber6541 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:07:45 AM PDT
diary way back when :) I wrote that last year pleading for Democrats to not pander to religion, but to not be afraid to show that they are religious to take away the Republicans stranglehold on the Religious vote.
by wargolem on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:14:34 AM PDT
. . .one's faith is pandering. I don't equate an unapologetic statement of his beliefs as "playing up" his faith. It's just one aspect of what makes him who he is. For some, it's an important element, for others, far less so.
One of the many, many factors that is very appealing to me about Barack is that he is so comfortable in his own skin. He doesn't need to pander. He says, "this is who I am."
by proudmomoftwo on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:47:36 AM PDT
has nothing to do with - and in fact is specifically excluded - with the job qualifications to be President of the United States of America.
Besides violating the spirit of the separation of church and state, it also appears to run against who ever it was (perhaps it was no one important) who said:
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. (Matthew 6.6)
by Roadbed Guy on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:27:56 AM PDT
that one should not be afraid to talk about or "proclaim" their faith.
I would say he was "pandering" if he was doing what ole' G-dubb did--faith-based initiatives, etc.
All Obama has said is, 'yeah I'm a Christian. Its an important part of who I am...I won't be what I am not."
Veerrry different...then say...affecting your voice to that of a "black southern preacher" when you have only set foot in a black church on the campaign trail.
Me and Mrs. Jonzee
by Jonzee on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:34:58 AM PDT
time, not as part of his political campaign (as vividly illustrated by the pictures katz5 links to a couple of posts down)
by Roadbed Guy on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:39:46 AM PDT
Roadbed Guy, I think I understand where you're coming from, but I just don't agree with your objection, or your interpretation of the separation of church and state.
There are a lot of things that have been thrown into the mix during this election season that have nothing to do with the specific job qualifications to be President of the United States.
Lapel pins come to mind.
But no worries. I think it's good to have a discussion surrounding these issues.
by proudmomoftwo on Thu May 15, 2008 at 11:59:29 AM PDT
I'm with you on this one.
best,
mikolo
by mikolo on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:12:53 AM PDT
last Christmas when DK mocked Huckabee's Christmas ad? Look at Obama's fliers pandering to KY evangelicals!!
http://race42008.com/...
by katz5 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 08:10:45 AM PDT
in your criticism of the Christian faith--and I'm no Born Again--but I think you are doing no one, including yourself, any favors by painting every Christian with the broad brush that says Christians are dumb because in your mind they
believe in an imaginary friend in the sky.
Not all Christians believe as you seem to assume they believe. You insult thinking Christians and you show yourself to be small-minded when you say things like that. and, really--
how intelligent is that?
If you want to judge religion, you're probably wise to keep it to yourself, or be sure you're only addressing other small-minded individuals.
by Samwoman on Thu May 15, 2008 at 09:19:13 AM PDT
Christians who do not believe in Jesus Christ? or I guess the alternative would be a Jesus Christ who did not rise from the dead and ascend into the sky where he still resides to this very day - which would seem to be a necessary prerequisite for him to not be considered imaginary.
While that seems to be self-contradictory, I suppose it is possible. However, to indulge my small mind, could you kindly offer me an explanation as to why such people call themselves Christians?
Thanking you kindly . . .
by Roadbed Guy on Thu May 15, 2008 at 01:31:47 PM PDT
NOT believe, as you so smugly put it, that Jesus is an imaginary friend living in the sky.
And, frankly, I have no interest in educating someone as clearly close-, and SMALL-minded as you exhibit yourself to be.
I'd suggest you take a class in Comparative Religion, meditate, maybe take some good mushrooms, THEN come ask me about Christians and what the best of them might think about Jesus and how faith guides their lives.
In the meantime, you just come off as a snotty idiot.
by Samwoman on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:21:44 PM PDT
believe in Jesus, aka Christ (as you now verify to be the case), why they'd call themself a Christian?
There just seems to be a bit of a disconnect there . . . but whatever
by Roadbed Guy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:31:50 AM PDT
but really, believing in an imaginary friend in the sky, how intelligent is that?).
is what I was responding to.
But to answer your question:
Some people call themselves Christians because they believe in cultivating a "Christ-centered Heart"--that does NOT necessarily mean that they believe in an imaginary friend in the sky. It CAN mean that they believe in the METAPHOR that we are ALL God and Human, and that by cultivating a Christ-Centered heart, that is how one attains a state of Nirvana, or "Heaven."
I do hope you will learn a little bit about [any topic] before setting about insulting people you do not know, who may very well be truly gifted beings. (I'm not suggesting that I am "Christian" OR a "truly gifted being"--but I was insulted by your original remark--I know several Christians who are exceptionally bright and have beautiful Christian Hearts--AND I know a few Born-Again Christians and Christian idiots I have no respect for-- .)
I apologize for having been rude to you--
by Samwoman on Fri May 16, 2008 at 05:49:58 AM PDT
to me (God knows I deserve it).
In any event, I think it's a wonderful thing that people have imaginations, have the ability to believe in abstract things like metaphors, etc. Basically, it comes down to one of the yet-unsolved mysteries of neuroscience - what is the molecular basis of consciousness?
I guess where my tendency to mock kicks in is when the wonderful ability to metaphorize takes over rationale thought and gives great and unwarranted - and unquestionable - motivating factors. For example, while somebody might have a 'lets-feed-the-poor-Jesus' the next person (e.g., GWB) has a 'Rambo-lets-go-kill-the-sand-niggers-Jesus' and both are equally sacred and unquestionable. And I would argue both are equally imaginary because each of these person's Jesus's are are simply a reflection of that person, not a higher power. I think society would be much better if all this nonsense - at least in public fora such as presidental elections - could be left behind.
by Roadbed Guy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:27:51 AM PDT
Great Powers--some exalt the Logical and Rational mind, others of us have created much more elaborate stories of Unbounded Power.
Ideally, each of us uses that imagination to impel Higher behavior in our world.
Unfortunately, it's when we disrespect others for thinking differently, and hold-fast to our OWN belief as the ONLY TRUE BELIEF that we get into problems. Those problems can take the form of selfishness and rudeness to others whom believe differently, and to killing and stealing from others who believe differently.
However, when it inspires us and guides us to behave "in service" to our fellow man, and with kindness more often that rudeness, I don't believe that it should be referred to as nonsense, nor should it be "left behind" simply because some people are uncomfortable with it.
I will grant you that how one chooses to practice their spiritual faith is a very personal matter, but public figures are subject to the public's nosiness, rightly or wrongly.
by Samwoman on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:51:52 AM PDT
I guess I'm going to have to be one of the few who disagrees with the premise of this diary. And I can tell you first hand that every senior member of the Obama campaign will verify this.
Obama had nothing- nothing- to do with the timing of Edwards' endorsement. Nothing. And for everyone to bow down in praise of the genius of his timing in rolling out Edwards is nothing short of silly.
I'm a fully on board Obama supporter and have been since I had the chance to meet him and hear him speak at a house party in 2003. But even I can't allow this diary to stand.
The idea that somehow Obama's timing with the Edwards endorsement was perfect is 100% silliness. Edwards' timing was based on one thing and one thing only- John Edwards being as absolutely safe as possible. This wasn't brilliance on Obama's part, this was safety first on Edwards' part.
Barack Obama and every single adivsor on his campaign wanted this public endorsement long, long ago and would have leapt to take it.
There were plenty, plenty of other times where Obama was within a bairsbreadth of ending this thing for good- just prior to Texas, Indiana, Super Tuesday where an Edwards endorsement and some hard campaigning could have helped end this thing long ago, would have spared the party these bitter divisions, and would have put Obama in a far greater position of strength.
But that didn't happen. Instead, Edwards waited, and waited, and waited... He was perfectly content to allow folks like Terry McAuliffe to repeatedly leak hints that Edwards was about to endorse Hillary despite the fact that this was total fiction. He waited at times when Obama needed him most in Texas, Indiana, California, Pennsylvania, Ohio. He waited and waited and waited.
And to insinuate that Obama wouldn't have MUCH preferred Edwards support back at any of those junctures is just purely naive.
I'm sorry, but this diary is just unfounded. Edwards' timing had nothing to do with Obama. Nothing. Other than maybe the latitude of a couple days. This was all Edwards. And it was all Edwards playing it as safe as absolutely possible. I'm a full-on Obama supporter, but this diary is giving credit where credit isn't due.
"It would send a horrible message to cut and run from Iraq." -Tim Kaine, 2006
by nocore on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:50:05 AM PDT
reported this morning. More of the opposite and how this demonstrates that Obama is now in complete control of the party.
You usually get what you paid for.
by IowaMike on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:56:04 AM PDT
No, actually, Chuck Todd didn't contradict this in any way shape or form.
by nocore on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:41:24 AM PDT
by wargolem on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:16:09 AM PDT
work with that delay, there is absolutely no doubt that the particular moment that was eventually chosen for edwards's endorsement, which he's been telegraphing for a week, was carefully designed to annul the effect of the WV loss.
sounds pretty smart to me.
if gore endorses after kentucky, will you say that it has nothing to do with kentucky simply because he could've endorsed earlier?
by jedley on Thu May 15, 2008 at 05:59:11 AM PDT
we don't actually know either way, do we?
My assumption is that many of the supers currently endorsing Obama in daily drips have been in contact with the campaign, and even if Obama doesn't completely control the timing of their endorsements, he's able to inflect it. Edwards was a big enough fish that he could name his own timing, but a key part of endorsements for most folks is the giving and receiving of favors. Jimmy Carter is probably one of the few supers who is totally immune to this sort of thing. For Al Gore, his "favor" might be an assurance that environmental concerns will be high priorities.
Anyway, if Edwards told Obama that he intended to endorse him, he's offering a favor, and he wants to make it as big a favor as possible. He makes it so by allowing Obama to suggest his preferred timing for the endorsement. If it suits Edwards, then fine. Obama says that endorsement would be more powerful after WV than before, which makes sense to Edwards: Clinton's going to lap Obama in WV, and Edwards doesn't want his reputation as the candidate of the "other America" tarnished. So instead, he gets to join Obama in Michigan, the heartland of American unions, and change the week's political narrative.
by deminva on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:03:04 AM PDT
and you never even attended a house party with Obama!
snark
sorry, but the ridiculing tone ("nothing short of silly") and Bush41-style rhetoric ("Even I can't allow this diary to stand") was just too much for me
by jedley on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:13:56 AM PDT
My comment mirrors (see: mocks) the tone of absolute 100% certainty of the diary which treats Obama like he is a clairvoyant Messiah when in fact he's just a really good Presidential candidate.
My tone mirrors the diarist's identically.
by nocore on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:43:36 AM PDT
Quick, gimme the winning lotery numbers for tommorrow and don't tell anyone else, huh? Cuz yer OBVIOUSLY a gifted psychic, right? Knowing what's in John Edwards mind, and all.
You and you,alone, know that. Damn, yer good. Let's have those numbers, dude.
You can't always tell the truth because you don't always know the truth - but you can ALWAYS be honest.
by mattman on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:31:43 AM PDT
Matt,
It is the diary that claims to be psychic. I only mirrored it.
by nocore on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:48:05 AM PDT
John Edwards says that I'm correct, and that you, Matt, are wrong. He also says that the rest of you who attempted to condescend were wrong as well.
Unless you are prepared to call John Edwards a bald-faced liar, I will await a group apology.
"That's not true," he said. "I know it's not true because I am the one who made the decision about when to do this. I believe this was the right time to do it. I made a decision that the public should know at this point my view."
Something like,"Sorry, Nocore, you were right," will suffice.
by nocore on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:51:44 AM PDT
What's your basis for the following three points?
And I can tell you first hand that every senior member of the Obama campaign will verify this.
Edwards' timing was based on one thing and one thing only- John Edwards being as absolutely safe as possible. This wasn't brilliance on Obama's part, this was safety first on Edwards' part.
The first and third points suggest you have some position with or intimate connection to Obama's HQ. The second statement sounds like conjecture based on observation. So I'm curious: What's your source for this information?
by thorn70 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:37:11 AM PDT
Focus. The diary is written as if it is ironclad inside information.
I wrote an equal and opposite response to highlight its absurdity. Because it is... absurd. Pay attention.
by nocore on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:45:20 AM PDT
sheesh
by jedley on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:50:26 AM PDT
... for condescension.
I think you're backpedaling. Otherwise, you'd admit your own fault in presenting snark as truth without any clarifying information.
Either that, or you thought you could present specious information as truth and no one would call you on it.
Either way, your unpleasantness is unjustified.
by thorn70 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 10:09:14 AM PDT
In order to buy the argument of the diary, you would have to believe each of the following: