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We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/
by anastasia p on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:23:56 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
I haven't seen the vince foster charge, but I have seen comments that basically amount to "Bill Clinton's presidency really was crap!" or that democrats should have let republicans remove Bill from office because he was a filthy adulterer, and it would have saved the world form Hillary.
Charges of doing anything to win (wanting to actively undermine Obama in the general so she can run in 2012 seems to be a recent favorite down that road)
and so on.
Mad Wombat
by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:38:16 AM PDT
Bill Clinton's Presidency seems fair game in this election since Senator Clinton claims to have been a major voice in it. And his Presidency was fairly lackluster and did much to further the causes of deregulation and corporate pandering. His foreign policy and human rights records weren't much to brag about either.
by Fabienne on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:44:35 AM PDT
to the netroot's favorite son suddenly turns Clinton's presidency from great to this atrocious thing.
And I thought things went well in the 90s. Well, I guess the GOP was right that it didn't then.
by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:48:00 AM PDT
Bill lost us waves of seats because he went with a "dem dominated region only" strategy, and triangulated his fellow democrats.
This Message Brought to You by People Enlightened by Red Foreman
by SteamPunkX on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:52:07 AM PDT
It seems that he started so-called triangulating after the big losses in '94, and after that we didn't fare too badly in Congressional elections while he was in office.
by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:57:16 AM PDT
for 3/4ths of his Presidential career, and that 2000 had nothing to do with him.
Spin baby spin!
by SteamPunkX on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:59:28 AM PDT
2 in the house, 4 in the senate.
by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue May 20, 2008 at 10:03:41 AM PDT
by SteamPunkX on Tue May 20, 2008 at 10:08:15 AM PDT
was about congressional seats.
Oh, and Gore lost because southerners saw him as too liberal. I lived in Tennessee at the time. They basically thought that he had strayed from the path of being a centrist/conservative democratic Senator.
If Clinton is to blame for his loss in any way, it's because of that.
However, it was so close, there are probably about 100 things that could have "decisively" changed the result, from Nader voters, to Gore running differently, or evening running closer to Clinton than he did.
Probably about the only thing that didn't cost Gore the election was Bill Clinton's political positions.
by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue May 20, 2008 at 10:10:54 AM PDT
it?
Bill lost us the culture war, any way you spin it.
by SteamPunkX on Tue May 20, 2008 at 10:13:17 AM PDT
...Suppression of minority voters probably contributed at least as many lost votes. Gore lost TN by 80,000.
John McCain likes Lobbyists
by Enterik on Tue May 20, 2008 at 10:20:02 AM PDT
the fact that he couldn't keep it in his pants. A Pew poll from 1999 indicates:
In a Gore-Bush match-up, Clinton's mixed favorability ratings are a stronger predictor of support for Gore than is Clinton's job approval.
While Gore does benefit from Clinton's robust job approval ratings, he is clearly being hurt by weariness with problems of the Clinton administration. An overwhelming majority (74%) of Americans agree with the statement, "I am tired of all the problems associated with the Clinton administration." This view is held by 77% of Independents and 64% of Democrats. Among those who express fatigue, 60% say they would vote for Bush over Gore in a two-way 2000 match-up; only 35% pick Gore.
Despite Clinton's strong 62% job approval rating, few Americans wish he could run for a third term. Only 29% of the public would like to see four more years of Clinton; 69% would not.
by limpidglass on Tue May 20, 2008 at 10:21:25 AM PDT
all of them ganged up on Gore in the south, it seems.
"If Clinton is to blame for his loss in any way, it's because of that."
Some price for progressive policies that those lobbies opposed and campaigned against was likely a factor in the red states, but Clinton scandal/impeachment fatigue was the overwhelming factor.
This exit poll question makes that quite clear:
"Which issues, if any, were most important to you in deciding how you would vote for president today?..." Up to two responses accepted. All Gore Bush "Moral/Ethical values" 35 17 55 "Jobs/The economy" 26 36 16 "Education" 25 31 20 "Social Security" 21 25 16 "Taxes" 16 9 25 "Abortion" 14 12 17 "The environment" 10 14 2 "Health care" 8 11 5 "Medicare/Prescription drugs" 8 10 6 "Budget surplus" 6 6 6 "Foreign affairs" 5 5 5 None of the above 4 3 4
"Which issues, if any, were most important to you in deciding how you would vote for president today?..." Up to two responses accepted.
All Gore Bush "Moral/Ethical values" 35 17 55 "Jobs/The economy" 26 36 16 "Education" 25 31 20 "Social Security" 21 25 16 "Taxes" 16 9 25 "Abortion" 14 12 17 "The environment" 10 14 2 "Health care" 8 11 5 "Medicare/Prescription drugs" 8 10 6 "Budget surplus" 6 6 6 "Foreign affairs" 5 5 5 None of the above 4 3 4
Gore won on all issues here except for "Moral/Ethical values" (where he badly lost) and abortion and taxes.
Gore started down to Bush by 15-20% in national polls and that's mostly attributed to Clinton scandal fatigue which was intense among both Republicans (we used to need about 10-13% of crossover Republican vote) and Independents (60-67% of the entire population was unfavorable towards Clinton "as a person"; assuming those favorable were mostly Democrats, that translates into most indies finding Clinton unfavorable). If Gore was even in the "blue states" (at that stage, a fair enough assumption), it translates into him trailing by 30-40% in southern/red states (effect was probably lesser in TN because of Gore's roots there but I doubt that it was absent. As such, Clinton/Gore barely managed to win TN in 1996 after working overtime there) from the get go. That's a HUGE barrier to overcome.
"or evening running closer to Clinton than he did."
Nope.
Clinton campaign effort could hurt Gore more than help, poll suggests CNN, From staff and wire reports October 24, 2000 Among independent voters, the net loss for Gore could be far greater: Gallup's survey indicated that 45 percent of independents would be less likely to vote for the vice president if Clinton were to campaign for him, while only 10 percent said they would be more likely to support Gore. Another 37 percent of independents said Clinton's efforts would make no difference.
Clinton campaign effort could hurt Gore more than help, poll suggests
CNN, From staff and wire reports October 24, 2000
Among independent voters, the net loss for Gore could be far greater: Gallup's survey indicated that 45 percent of independents would be less likely to vote for the vice president if Clinton were to campaign for him, while only 10 percent said they would be more likely to support Gore. Another 37 percent of independents said Clinton's efforts would make no difference.
Clinton was always popular with Democrats and mostly unpopular with Republicans, but in 1999/2000, he was also extremely unpopular with independents because most of them seem to have faulted Clinton for his reckless conduct paving to the impeachment drama by Republicans, with the country mired in that nonsense for 3 years as result.
"Probably about the only thing that didn't cost Gore the election was Bill Clinton's political positions."
Nope, again. Nader bashed Gore for not only alleged sins of Gore, but also those of Clinton at the policy level (eg, it was Clinton that didn't put his weight behind environmental matter such as Kyoto as Gore wanted him to do, but Nader bashed Gore for it). Nader's attacks in turn:
The 2000 election was a multi-ring circus, but Clinton scandal provided the whopping starting handicap that hampered Gore badly. Media smears and the Nader factor were the other factors not exactly of Gore's making.
Just say NO to BAYH (for VP)! Here's why!
by NeuvoLiberal on Tue May 20, 2008 at 10:44:54 AM PDT
for comparison, Clinton's coattails in 1992 were nonexistent: we lost 9 seats in the House, and neither gained nor lost in the Senate.
And besides 2000, we never won any Senate seats during the Clinton Administration, either losing seats or not gaining any.
We had better luck with the House after Gingrich's stupidity lost the Republicans seats, but they still controlled the House.
by limpidglass on Tue May 20, 2008 at 10:54:15 AM PDT
spreadsheet with links
It seems that we gained 2 senate seats in 92 (compared to strengths at the beginning of the session), but lost 12 house seats. Then we blew everything in 94.
What happened to Gore's senate seat once he was elected as VP?
by NeuvoLiberal on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:10:23 AM PDT
to people being appointed to fill out someone else's Senate seat, for Wikipedia indicates that the 1992 Senate elections were a draw for both parties.
Gore's Senate seat was filled by appointment by Harlan Matthews. Fred Thompson won it in 1994.
by limpidglass on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:20:37 AM PDT
about who is going to be the most moderate and centrist...based on their senate voting record, Clinton would actually be the more liberal of the pair, not Obama.
So while they criticize Bill Clinton for not being liberal enough, they go ahead and support the less liberal of the two candidates, at least based on record.
by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue May 20, 2008 at 09:53:12 AM PDT
voting record unprogressive. Add Kyl-Lieberman and we have a trend.
by NeuvoLiberal on Tue May 20, 2008 at 11:03:28 AM PDT
after he tanked on gays in the military, Zoe Baird, Lanie Guinier, etc.
I guess I'm old fashioned, but I think if a president gets caught flat out lying to the American public, the right thing for him (or her) to do is resign, because to do otherwise is to signal approval for the idea that it is OK for politicians to lie to the people who elect them.
Up until this campaign, however, I had a generally positive attitude towards Hillary. I wouldn't vote for her because of AUMF, but I didn't blame her for that vote any more than I blamed Kerry or Edwards for theirs.
by elmo on Tue May 20, 2008 at 10:17:43 AM PDT
It's amazing how a primary challenge to the netroot's favorite son
What kind of retarded argument is that? Can't you remember, say, 4 months back, when 60%+ of the people on this blog were pushing for a John Edwards nomination?
Wasn't John Edwards the netroots' favorite son?
Truth is, Hill and Bill Clinton were never that popular with the netroots because they governed like moderate republicans.
But keep ignoring things like history and facts, look how well that has worked for Bush and his buddies.
by Trepanator on Tue May 20, 2008 at 10:21:05 AM PDT
wide narrow
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