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why she seems worse than most normal politicians. It's also why so many people are convinced by her lies.
by txjenny on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:12:56 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
The only "reality" that is meaningful to her is one that can be construed to bathe her in the golden light she feels radiating around her.
I suspect some of this comes from spending so much time around Bill. He does radiate (I've seen him in person --not lately). I think she thinks she does too.
by Urizen on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:20:14 PM PDT
My family was meeting up at an airport in the '80s, and suddenly we all felt this presence and turned around. And there was George McGovern!
But I've learned that just because people have an great "aura" about them isn't data about, well, pretty much anything that matters.
Until we break the corporate virtual monopoly on what we hear and see, we keep losing, don't matter what we do.
by Jim P on Sun May 04, 2008 at 09:08:00 PM PDT
I so would have been a McGovernite if I'd been alive during the '70s. Although Hillary would have us all believe that she was the only one working George's campaign here in TX back then, my mom canvassed for him around Austin and had a wonderful time. Anyways. Just an aside. :-)
by txjenny on Sun May 04, 2008 at 09:43:19 PM PDT
and this was in 2006, at Ann Richards's memorial...when I was still very open to voting for her in the primary (b/c Obama hadn't declared yet, and I knew Hillary was going to run...who didn't?). It was really amazing that she was the same non-shiny personality in person as she is on TV. A definite downer.
by txjenny on Sun May 04, 2008 at 09:45:04 PM PDT
but not a sociopath. True sociopaths can't rise to the level as she has, they tend to be criminals and can't hold down jobs.
It's a term that's been thrown around with regards to Clinton, and as much as I loathe her behavior, as a mental health clinician, I have to take exception to the sociopath label.
by leawood on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:21:43 PM PDT
but I doubt she has NPD - someone with a true Axis II diagnosis of NPD would be too impaired to ascend to the level she has.
Still, with regards to the general population, may be the closest many of us will get to see with NPD.
by leawood on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:24:13 PM PDT
I know several people who exhibit all the classic signs of NPD and not only function, but are extremely successful. I think, in part, that this is the case because they have no real feelings and everything is always about them. Makes a perfect old school politician.
by ccr4nine on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:14:30 PM PDT
I've know a few who have all the signs and find no impediments to success.
by Urizen on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:38:37 PM PDT
to success, in fact, I think it's an asset in some circles, sadly.
by ozarkspark on Sun May 04, 2008 at 10:24:04 PM PDT
scruples about honesty, loyalty, fairness, etc.
In the short term I find narcissistic people really attractive as they seem to have such a strong sense of purpose, such conviction in the value of their work (if they're artists). I get over that once I realize what's going on.
NPD is fascinating to me. I can't imagine what it's like to go through life without any real concern or empathy for others.
by Urizen on Sun May 04, 2008 at 10:39:11 PM PDT
Narcissistic people can be very charming, and we can be drawn to them because they have 'that special something'. But if you really look at what's underneath, real character is lacking.
From what I've read, narcissistic people are capable of empathy, but because of their over-riding self-interest, it's not very well developed.
But the true anti-social/sociopaths: not a shred of conscience or empathy.
These people with emotional/personality disorders are in all walks of life. Drifters and users, doctors, teachers, check-out clerks, politicians, anywhere. And on the internets :-0
by ozarkspark on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:02:01 AM PDT
If I had three wishes, one would to be alone one at a time with everyone from FAUX-NEWS for 7 min. in a closet with no retribution.
by fromdabak on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:41:18 PM PDT
though and through.
by kate mckinnon on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:59:19 PM PDT
thread sociopaths aren't able to function, or are in jail.... I don't know, I'm not a mental health expert....
by fromdabak on Sun May 04, 2008 at 09:01:53 PM PDT
he's fucked up everything he's ever touched. But since he is from a wealthy, powerful family, he just keeps getting reassigned, with no penalty.
And he should be in jail, because of his crimes, but it's doubtful that he ever will be.
by kate mckinnon on Sun May 04, 2008 at 09:06:28 PM PDT
by steverino247 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 09:06:57 PM PDT
titled "The Sociopath Nextdoor". The author said she wrote the book because she was alarmed about the administration's response after 9/11 and she wanted the average person to understand the traits of a sociopath.
She tells an anecdotal story about a boy whose favorite childhood game was blowing up frogs with fire-crackers, hundreds of them, every summer. I googled "George Bush frogs" and bingo.
by ozarkspark on Sun May 04, 2008 at 10:39:08 PM PDT
PD or Sociopathic were diagnosed with conduct disorder as a child. As you have described above ozarkspark, one trait is animal cruelty as a child.
When you have faith, all things are possible
by 3O3 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 11:46:48 PM PDT
seem on the face of it to have many of the trademark symptoms of antisocial personality disorder. The thing is, it's the low-functioning antisocial people who get diagnosed, so the clinical picture is skewed. It's entirely possible that there is a large number of high-functioning sociopaths out there, but they don't tend to present to psychologists for testing and treatment, so it's unquantified.
So, while it's true that people who receive a formal diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder are usually low-functioning and/or in jail, that doesn't mean that all, or even most people who meet diagnostic criteria for antisocial personality disorder are low-functioning.
My family cannot afford a John McCain presidency.
by kydoc on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:29:43 AM PDT
"We the People of the United States..." -U.S.Constitution
by elwior on Sun May 04, 2008 at 10:14:43 PM PDT
This has often been said about him, and by people qualified to say so. I suspect Cheney and Rumsfeld also. A whole nest of them. I think that's why everything has gone so terribly wrong - A White House full of sociopaths for eight years. Scary, scary.
by ozarkspark on Sun May 04, 2008 at 10:28:59 PM PDT
It's been some time since I've read it, but I believe Dr. Frank's conclusion is that Bush is a megalomaniac.
by No Coast Nate on Sun May 04, 2008 at 09:05:54 PM PDT
by No Coast Nate on Sun May 04, 2008 at 09:14:27 PM PDT
Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Jungian psychologist who wrote "Women Who Run With the Wolves" wrote a paper about Bush as a megalomaniac. I found it on the internets.
by ozarkspark on Sun May 04, 2008 at 10:43:21 PM PDT
How would she have a diagnosis, anyway? Most people who have the traits of these disorders are not diagnosed.
by ozarkspark on Sun May 04, 2008 at 10:16:36 PM PDT
of course since they're never diagnosed, we don't really know how many of them there are...but a lot of people in the public eye seem on the face of it to have several of the symptoms.
by kydoc on Mon May 05, 2008 at 08:31:49 AM PDT
Disorder (NPD) with traits to spare. According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR):
a patient must exhibit five or more of the following traits in order to be diagnosed with NPD: . grandiose sense of self-importance . preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love . belief that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) . need for excessive admiration . sense of entitlement . takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends . lack of empathy . envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
Lying is just a major tool in the arsenal of the narcissist.
by Phyllis in Oregon on Sun May 04, 2008 at 09:26:44 PM PDT
Pathological suggests that its a disease, that its harmful to her in some way, that she lies because she needs to.
My ex-wife used to lie even when the truth would do. I don't actually think it was pathological with her even. She did it for entertainment value.
Hillary does it because it has always worked for her. All those lies are beginning to catch up with her, now. because people are starting to keep track. And You-Tube is not her friend. But she still lies for a purpose, not because she's compulsive.
The sleep of reason brings forth monsters. --Goya
by MadScientist on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:27:14 PM PDT
was referring to the title more than anything else, not thinking of it clinically.
Perhaps it's a term we throw around too easily like "sociopath".
by leawood on Sun May 04, 2008 at 07:29:59 PM PDT
GWOT - Global War on Terra(-firma) - Bush's War on the Planet.
by grndrush on Sun May 04, 2008 at 09:04:01 PM PDT
There is a book called "Snakes in Suits" by two leading experts on psychopathy, and their thesis, if I recall right, is that the corporate environment -- and I'm guessing politics too -- is a place where sociopaths can flourish and do quite well in their quest for personal gain (wreaking destruction in their wake).
This is not to say that I believe Hillary is a sociopath, but it's just a thought. (I do truly tend to think Cheney is one.) I think she is, like many politicians, simply monumentally arrogant and out-of-touch, with a sense of personal grandiosity and delusions of grandeur that really stems for self-esteem that is about half-a-millimeter high.
by niemann on Sun May 04, 2008 at 09:59:12 PM PDT
wide narrow
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