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and to be sure, I think that Hillary has done wonders for getting women more interested in politics, and more aligned with the Democratic column.
oops. I hope the gate wasn't too expensive.
My blog. Come visit.
by hekebolos on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:34:53 PM PDT
[ Parent ]
Thank you, hekebolos.
1-20-09 The Darkness Ends "Where cruelty exists, law does not." ~ Alberto Mora
by noweasels on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:37:35 PM PDT
As a staunch (nay even cultist) supporter of Obama, the primary wars have paradoxically made me
a) Question the Clinton legacy of triangulation, Morris Rove, etc.
b) Made me realise that there are still a lot of unreconstructed attitudes among dems.
and
c) Made me admire and fear Hillary's qualities of resilience and self belief, even when they verge on the delusional
I'm still trying to work out how this happened, and while glad the nomination is in sight for Obama, I realise diaries like this are not only part of some therapeutic healing process, but accurate to boot. Providing it ends soon, or becomes more positive in tone, the last few months might have drawn the poison from the inevitable collision of identity politics these two candidates would produce. It could have also inoculated the dems against what the republicans will bring from the summer onward. And certainly, no one can be in any doubt that Obama has survived a fight against one of the most politically ferocious and adept families on this planet. If they rally round to support him by the fall, the dems will be unstoppable
Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour? Monty Python
by Brit on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:41:57 AM PDT
and expressed my feelings at the time (Jan. 2006). Here's the beginning of her article:
I'd like to make it clear to the people who run the Democratic Party that I will not support Hillary Clinton for president. Enough. Enough triangulation, calculation and equivocation. Enough clever straddling, enough not offending anyone This is not a Dick Morris election. Sen. Clinton is apparently incapable of taking a clear stand on the war in Iraq, and that alone is enough to disqualify her. Her failure to speak out on Terri Schiavo, not to mention that gross pandering on flag-burning, are just contemptible little dodges.
I'd like to make it clear to the people who run the Democratic Party that I will not support Hillary Clinton for president.
Enough. Enough triangulation, calculation and equivocation. Enough clever straddling, enough not offending anyone This is not a Dick Morris election. Sen. Clinton is apparently incapable of taking a clear stand on the war in Iraq, and that alone is enough to disqualify her. Her failure to speak out on Terri Schiavo, not to mention that gross pandering on flag-burning, are just contemptible little dodges.
by ybruti on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:56:34 AM PDT
Sen. Clinton is apparently incapable of taking a clear stand on the war in Iraq, and that alone is enough to disqualify her.
Seriously, if she doesn't know where she stands on this issue without the benefit of polling data, then her character is simply inadequate. You see it again and again, she really doesn't care about progressive principles, it's just the avenue she's taken to power.
For example, could a person who truly values the environment, or respects the scientific process have proposed that stupid gas tax holiday?
John McCain
by dbratl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:59:22 AM PDT
bargain that in order to get into power and enact change it's necessary to first pander on issues like this. The problem is that the goal (enacting real change) never arrives and all one does is waffle and capitulate on these types of issues. It never seems to occur to these "democrats" that governing by polls is not leadership, but rather being led. Moreover, they never seem to recognize that the sentiments of the electorate in polls are produced by the media and how politicians frame issues. Their job is to define the issues, not let the issues be defined for them. The Republicans have successfully defined the issues for years, there's no reason we can't do so. Obama is proof positive that we are doing so. The problem with pandering to rightwing frames as Clinton does as we never even get our issues on the table for debate and we allow the Republicans to both define the field of value and the available stances one can take.
by Philoguy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:59:21 AM PDT
I think this election shows that there really are at least three power centers capable of mounting a National campaign, the Republicans, and two different ideas of the Democratic party.
It would be interesting to map what interests each of these three distinct groups actually forward and then track back to where their actual support comes from.
by dbratl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:10:21 AM PDT
Clinton and Obama is the choice between oligarchy and democracy. Clinton believes in party insiders, media elites, and big money corporate lobby donors. Obama believes in grass roots, enthusiastic, bottom up participation.
by Philoguy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:16:46 AM PDT
That Hillary came up against a candidate representing the future. It was her inability to address "new" generational challenges adequately (whether it was young, new voters or internet communications and fund-raising) that has resulted in her loss.
A changing of the guard must happen - its a natural part of evolution. Change is inevitable - we have to learn to cope and move on.
by griz4u on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:33:05 AM PDT
We need REAL man in office. Not some namby-pamby girly type man. McCain Vows To Replace Secret Service With His Own Bare Fists
McCain Vows To Replace Secret Service With His Own Bare Fists
If you see me behind you..don't assume I'm following you. We just happen to be going the same way and if you slow down, I'll run over your ass.
by TKH on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:57:35 AM PDT
Wire and sharp sticks.
by ruscle on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:43:14 AM PDT
When she was self-satisfied and content. If she had campaigned as fiercely for Iowa and super-Tuesday as she has since Ohio/TX, we could have easily lost this race.
Other things that broke our way;
It was by no means a sure deal that the future/netroots would secure the nomination this cycle and her fighting so hard is a product of the establishment not wanting to let go.
We got lucky, the big thing is if we get the white house to use our luck to transform the party.
When Reagan was elected, the Republicans in Congress were much like the Democrats now. Largely centrist with a little under half representing an insurgent conservative wing. By the time he left, the Party was far, far, more conservative.
by dbratl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:04:31 AM PDT
don't hire an incompetent douchbag to run your campaign. Mark Penn is a shining example of everything that is wrong with the DLC-era Democratic Party. Hopefully that era is over. That Hillary would let that ammoral hack run her campaign kind of encapsulates the Clinton team's flaws. Yes Hillary is amazingly smart and hard-working. I'm sure she's very warm and charming in person. I'm sure she really cares about people. But when you choose a political path that has room for the likes of Mark Penn and Dick Morris, you clearly have lost your way.
In a safe blue seat and without the constraints of trying to position herself as some kind of hawk-tacular centrist in order to run for President, Hillary has the opportunity to achieve greatness in the Senate (if such a "consolation prize" is not too much of a letdown for her.) But the last thing I would want is to have a Senate majority leader who's also trying to position herself for another Presidential run. If she wants my support for majority leader, she needs to stand up and deliver on some important issue the way Dodd did.
Chomsky Fever! John McCain sucks.
by miasmo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:01:17 AM PDT
. . . but you know, stranger things have happened.
More than not wanting an SML whose running for President, the last thing I would want is a Democratic SML working to undermine a Democratic sitting president and I really don't think you can rule that out with Clinton.
by dbratl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:08:00 AM PDT
Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
by TrueBlueMajority on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:28:12 PM PDT
The Black Intellectual angle. I have lived and worked all over the world for the past 30 years. During that time, I have met several "worthy" folks - different colors, religions, back-grounds, professions, genders.
Every one of these "worthy" folks has the ff attributes:
So, its the person that we are supporting - got nothing to do with color or gender.
I went to see Barack at his rally in Toledo, and had the luck and pleasure of shaking his hand after- he's real!
Barack "connects' with me - and he is qualified to be running for POTUS.
I.MUST.SUPPORT!
by griz4u on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:26:52 AM PDT
Its just that you can't always rely on that to carry you to victory. The fact that we were able to get 'one of ours' - a genuine good guy over the top has something to do with the magic trick his background played with the demographics.
For example, had Obama been the same exact guy, but white I don't think he ever would have gotten 90+ % of the black vote which has been a secret to him winning. He would have been painted as an egghead and Clinton would have won. Likewise, had he been black but not intellectual, but still good natured and nice, he wouldn't have drawn big money or elite support that he needed to reach viability. He would have been a token and just that.
by dbratl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:48:21 AM PDT
I think he did in the GE. But differences between John and Barack are pretty clear. Bubba got huge AA support too.
You have a point about the demographics, but remember that the AA vote wasn't solid before Iowa.
Iowa kicked the Obama tires and decided this is a car they liked and it wasn't because of the color of the exterior - I think they liked the entire package.
The worthy candidate holds more weight IMHO than the demographic argument.
by griz4u on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:11:20 PM PDT
Of which there were like none, so we'd never know.
What I'm saying is without the demographic trick, he wouldn't have gotten out of the Democratic primaries.
I hope I don't live to regret saying this, but I think the Democratic primary was the challenge this year. Getting past McCain will be easy compared to getting past Clinton.
by dbratl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:49:17 PM PDT
You should consider expanding this comment into a diary. I think you summarized the inherent limitiation of the 'triangulation' strategy very well.
It turns out that Bush IS a uniter... he united the good half of the country virulently against him.
by fizziks on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:19:59 AM PDT
He made a political success of himself without selling out or pandering, and that makes her feel embarrassed that she sold out when he didn't have to.
by TrueBlueMajority on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:25:35 PM PDT
She had plenty of opportunities to back away from her Iraq war vote. Edwards did it easily. There have been lots and lots of chances to offload the full blame for that bill onto BushCo's lies. That a President could deliberately set out to deceive Congress on an issue as weighty as a war was very hard to believe. Plenty of American voters had that problem. She wouldn't have paid a penalty.
If she only voted for it to position her image for a presidential run, was she really so stupid as not to see that the tide of public opinion was turning, and her former position was about to become a real disadvantage?
I think this is the real Hillary we're seeing. She hasn't repudiated her vote because she likes the war. She has bought into the neocon vision. She thinks it's important for the US to hold hegemony over the middle east, and she thinks war is the only way to obtain it.
Folly is fractal: the closer you look at it, the more of it there is.
by Canadian Reader on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:15:55 PM PDT
by TrueBlueMajority on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:27:44 PM PDT
by Myrrhis on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:01:25 AM PDT
I miss her so much and think about her all the time. She was a visionary and "had the skinny" on the Clintons for a long time.
Funny as hell and could sum up the jist of a situation quicker than anyone. Because I read "Shrub", I knew that the Iraq was was "Bushsh*t"from day one.
For you Molly
together-we win
by ABB on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:34:34 AM PDT
If anyone could have redeemed the reputation of Texas following the slime ball now sitting in the oval office it was her. She made me proud to be a Texan -- he embarrasses me as an American.
I have to thank an English teacher from way back in my high school days (class of '79) for making me aware that she mattered or that I might want to pay attention to her (thanks Ms. Hesby).
I do miss her wonderful way with words. I miss her so.
"Ring the bells that still can ring, forget your perfect offering, there's a crack, a crack in everything...that's how the light gets in." -- Leonard Cohen
by doug in texas on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:16:02 AM PDT
that I felt I couldn't support her either. I think the Democratic party needs to isolate, then purge the whole DLC thought process and move forward.
A little anecdote. I went to a very progressive High School (a surprise considering it was an all girls Catholic school taught by nuns - I'm not sure where they found these nuns, but they were the best.) We had 9 college prep classes and 1 commercial/secretarial class in each grade. I was in one of the college prep classes and we studied, Latin, advanced math and science. I did not take typing.
A number of years later, I was working in the Fashion industry (which was a bit ahead of its time with regard to the attitudes towards working women). One of my bosses came into my office and said, "I need you to type a letter." This was not in my job description - but I've never been a "not my job" kind of person.
I said to him. "I hope you're not in a big hurry."
He looked puzzled and he asked why. I told him that I could operate a typewriter, but I couldn't type.
He looked at me in puzzled silence for a bit before asking, "What do you mean?"
I replied, "I don't know how to type, but I can manage to hunt and peck a bit with 2 fingers."
He said, "That's ridiculous! All women know how to type!"
I said, with a smile, "No, only the ones who took typing in school, and I didn't."
He stalked off to find a typing woman, all the while muttering something about there ought to be a law about required subjects for women.
I managed to work quite well with my typing deficiency until computers arrived on the scene, and now I can keyboard like a whizz - but, of course, I backspace quite a bit.
I support Barack Obama, I voted for him in my state's primary, and I think he will make a spectacular president. Maybe in 8 years, we will have a woman just as good who can succeed him.
OWW4O (Old White Woman 4 Obama) OWW40's Unite!
by Cyber Kat on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:50:48 AM PDT
...triangulation will remain quite alive and present.
HR 676 is the best health reform proposal worth my vote.
by kck on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:09:08 AM PDT
enough not offending anyone . . .
by Mother of Zeus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:53:22 AM PDT
It seems like the way to get a recommended diary these days is to all of a sudden turn around and say something nice and uplifting about Hillary Clinton.
I'm fine with using my infinitesimal portion of Obama's war chest to pay off her campaign debt if that's what it takes to get her out of the race and supportive of Obama as the candidate.
However, I don't have to like the fact that the netroots will end up picking up the tab for all her 3:00 am phone call ads, and I don't have to respect her for shaking down the nominee just to do what every other normal nominee in history would have done as a matter of course because they support the Democratic party.
I'm trying to stir up more contempt and I agree we need to move past this. If we need to present a public face of unity, so be it, but let's kid ourselves by pretending we have respect for her.
by dbratl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:56:41 AM PDT
It is the media who suggested that one way to convince Clinton to leave the campaign would be to help retire her debt. It's a "some people say" scenario... In other words, that idea did not originate with either campaign and has absolutely zero to do with reality, excepting the traditional media bloviating talking heads.
Montesquieu and Locke are rolling in their graves right now...
by Mannabass on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:16:38 AM PDT
My assumption is that if it's out there its because someone on her side floated it.
by dbratl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:30:20 AM PDT
makes an ASS-out-of U and Me
by kulshan on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:00:13 AM PDT
think the media got this bright idea from some high level anonymous operative mentioned this in a phone call to certain key level media figures? Remember the film 13 Days where one of JFK's operatives flips out on a general in the war room, gesturing at the map of boats on the wall-- "this is communication, this is diplomacy! Every move we make is a message from the President!" A lot of stories and speculation we see on the "news" is exactly this: Communication between the campaigns.
by Philoguy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:03:15 AM PDT
where this assh*le idea came from. Probably from some Republicans who see the coming elections as putting them in debt and want to start a new trend.
(Actually an old trend - the gov't bailing out mismanaged, greedy corporations and banks [Enron & Bear Sterns come to recent mind] is well established.)
Probably their version of "public financing" of elections.
If Hillary cares so much about the causes she says she does, she'll get back to work in the Senate; and work for them. NYS & the US taxpayer deserve better.
by PinHole on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:32:15 AM PDT
her campaign debt; she's a rich woman and can retire her own debt and still have millions left over to support her lifestyle and for Chelsea to inherit. Let her pay her own way as the rest of us do with our own impulse-buying debt, it was her choice to sink her own millions into campaign loans.
In youth we learn, in age we understand.
by Jbeaudill on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:31:36 AM PDT
From a fairness standpoint. If they could work out a deal where she gets a quarter up front to pay off her creditors and the rest after the election provided she doesn't screw him over I could live with it. It could be a smart use of funds if it can be handled the right way.
What I'm saying is that I accept that politics sometimes requires unsavory compromises. What I don't like are all these diaries praising Clinton in the name of some kind of unity.
I'll do what we need to get elected, even if that mean projecting a happy face to the world about HRC, but I'm not going to lose sight of who she is or forget what she did.
And I certainly don't think anyone on this site should forget that she would slit Obama throat in a half-second if she thought it would give her some advantage. She's not to be trusted.
by dbratl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:41:41 AM PDT
but it would be way cool if Obama paid off all the little guy vendors who advanced her money for catering and printing and PA systems and the like.
we will need some of these people in November and you can't quantify the good will he would get from a gesture like that.
No money for Penn (or any salaries), no money for HRC loan repayment, just Obama paying (directly--not going through the HRC campaign) dozens of low end vendors who really need the $2,000 for chair rental or $3,000 for sandwiches or $5,000 for printing.
by TrueBlueMajority on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:31:57 PM PDT
who provided her with so much should not be getting stiffed. Definitely no dough for Penn et al and I agree that Obama campaign should do it direct so that control is maintained. Great idea! Hope you send it on to Obama HQ.
by Jbeaudill on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:18:49 PM PDT
is that that scenario would be illegal. silly media...
小浜 (Obama) TShirts
by jarnikles on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:19:03 AM PDT
You just won the "Just because bloviating talking heads on cable news say it, doesn't mean it has any basis in fact or reality" award! Bonus points for not mindlessly spreading nonsense!
by Mannabass on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:34:54 AM PDT
I know in the back of my head that though "bloviating talking heads" are just trying to sell advertisements, but it still riles me up. Been known say some nonsensical things myself in response to the nonsense. In my defense, I am usually with friends, and am not paid to do it...
by jarnikles on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:15:13 PM PDT
...unfair. I understand everything you said, and I can't say I completely disagree, but the sentiment of this diary wasn't some attempt to get rec'd by invoking sympathy for Hillary.
I lobbied everyone in my family on behalf of Obama. My two younger sisters voted for Obama, as did their spouses. My parents voted for Clinton. My dad was ambivalent about the choice, selecting Clinton because he was wary of Obama's lack of experience. My mother feels strongly about a woman of her generation running for president.
You can't underestimate the power of the symbolism here. For people like the diarist and my mother (who is in her early 60s) the Clinton campaign is a validation of everything they fought for, just as African Americans feel validated and empowered by Obama. I think there's room for grace and sentiment at this moment.
"A democracy is more than a form of government; it is primarily a mode of associated living, of conjoint communicated experience" -John Dewey
by mikeplugh on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:51:25 AM PDT
You can't underestimate the power of the symbolism here.... I think there's room for grace and sentiment at this moment.
by doug in texas on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:18:08 AM PDT
I just don't have compassion for her.
by dbratl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:37:20 AM PDT
First, as any number of people have noted, Hillary Clinton is a far better candidate than this campaign.
Everything you read about her shows she is smart and hard working. She made to fatal errors: voting for authorization and not being able to admit it was a mistake (that means her experience argument can't be made) and hiring someone who didn't know California was not winner-take-all and a whole lot of other stuff.
Those two mistakes doomed this candidacy. If not Obama, then Edwards would be the nominee.
Second, I do feel sorry for her. She truly has spent her life trying to make the lives of ordinary people, both in the US and elsewhere, better. She saw the nomination and election as one more platform and worked hard to get there and didn't. That has to be disheartening.
Third, noweasals can't be the only woman in her 50s with those experiences. I am 58, a male. I am part of that generation who saw that any number of career choices were available now for women that were restricted or impossible. I have had the good fortune of knowing pioneers. Clinton is for them a model that it can be done. It now appears Clinton won't be the first and that, too, has to be disheartening.
I have been on the end of a lot of losing races that I worked very, very hard for. I have cried once or twice.
This year is not it. Obama has bet on us, the American people, that we want a better kind of politics. Now, it is up to us to take that opportunity and make it happen.
I find the following difference in chants the greatest difference between the Clinton campaign and the Obama campaign. Clinton people chant, "Yes, she can," seeing her as the white knight on the white horse leading them to victory. Obama people chant, "Yes, we can." He has created a space for US (and that has two meanings here) to truly have a politics of, by and for the people. However, WE must make it happen. HE is only the one out front. WE, not he, will make it happen.
Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren. Bertolt Brecht
by MoDem on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:06:26 AM PDT
But again I think its more about her supporters than her.
This is coming from someone who had a great deal of respect for Clinton prior to this campaign. I only settled on Obama a few days before the Iowa Caucuses, and she was my only my second choice by a very small margin.
I started to become alarmed about her in N.H. when she performed the public crying display, Bill's behavior in SC was appalling but I chalked it up to his open-heart operation and I didn't blame her personally. I thought she did a fine job campaigning for super-Tuesday, but then her dismissal of Obama's win on S-Tues. and during February really grated on me.
She finally lost me for good with Geraldine Ferraro, 3:00 am, and her two-faced attempts to seat FL and MI. Her campaign since has been nothing short of demagogic and enraging. Preying off people's ignorance and fear.
No, I can't say I have compassion for her. Five months ago, if you had told me she would fight hard and lose, I probably would anticipate compassion, but I have no feelings for her other than wanting her to simply go away.
by dbratl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:17:52 AM PDT
HRC should've thought about 'grace' before her campaign managers began suggesting on national TV that Obama was - and still is - a crack dealer.
And that was just the start; From trying to change the rules to lying on the stump day after day, Hillary Clinton is the embodiment of everything that is utterly wrong about politics and governance.
I have absolutely zero sympathy - and a lot of permanent, irreconcilable anger - toward the Clintons and their top-level staffers. This includes the various politicians who endorsed her and continued to do so after she repeatedly inflicted the most loathsome, racist, fear-mongering attacks on Obama. Even Republicans wouldn't dare go as low and as the Clintons did. She has destroyed her family's name and legacy. We should not let them get away with it.
She sucked up to Scaife, Murdoch and Limbaugh in an effort to permanently destroy Obama's chances in November. There is no other explanation for her behavior on the campaign trail, because it was obvious to everyone on her staff that she would not get the nomination after 2.26.08.
They are a vile, poisonous gang of scumbags who should be drummed out of the Democratic Party immediately. They are not worthy of any kind of reconciliation from Democrats, and I only hope her "low-information" supporters and middle-aged women who 'see themselves in her' will begin to realize how badly they were manipulated. If, god help us, McCain wins, it will be because of Clinton's campaign tactics during this god-awful primary.
All those women who think Hillary should be admired will be forced to confront the overturning of Roe v Wade due to her "resilience" during the primaries.
She is not 'resilient'. She is pig-headed and cares only about her own political ambition.
She is not 'tough'. She is hateful, irrational and has maliciously encouraged her supporters to say and think the absolute worst of a fellow Democrat and future great president.
She is not a 'great campaigner'. She is the embodiment of those human attributes which Progressives, Liberals and Democrats have always loathed and hated.
by sean oliver on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:50:12 AM PDT
the diarist wrote this to get on the recommended list. I meant that this idea that Clinton should be forgiven for her behavior and we should all now move on is verging on group think.
I mean, I'm all for moving on and putting the best face on this, but I don't actually have any feelings of warmness or fondness for Clinton and her campaign operation. I think they are horrible people, and I think in all this kumbaya stuff we better not forget that.
by dbratl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:39:49 AM PDT
She hasn't gotten out of the race yet.
I'm not ready to try to feel warm and fuzzy over someone whose candidacy continues to harm the party by harming the party's inevitable nominee.
I'll feel better once she drops out and does something to make amends.
"Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove." P.G. Wodehouse
by gsbadj on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:59:47 AM PDT
about warm and fuzzy, as much as it is about recognizing a watershed moment in history.
This has truly been a history book primary campaign. The first (truly viable) African American candidate and the first (truly viable) female candidate, left all the white male candidates at the starting gate.
by Cyber Kat on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:06:29 AM PDT
I can understand the desire to see these dreams fulfilled ...
For people like the diarist and my mother (who is in her early 60s) the Clinton campaign is a validation of everything they fought for, just as African Americans feel validated and empowered by Obama.
but Hillary Clinton is not the woman I would chose to fulfill them. Unlike many people, I chose a candidate for who they are, not what dream, or ideology or pie-in-the-sky they may or may not represent.
I saw (and still see) a lot more substance in the Obama dream, than I did in the Clinton dream.
by Cyber Kat on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:00:30 AM PDT
spoke with a staffer this a.m. at Obama headquarters and he said its not going to happen.
In fact he laughed.
No reason for voters to pay for Hilary to lose.Let her supporters pay her debt.
Its a matter of principle.
by kulshan on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:58:33 AM PDT
If he pays down her debt then he will hurt grassroots fundraising in the future (including his own presidential campaign).
People will want a guarantee that their donation will not ultimately end up financing the opposing candidate.
by brownsca on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:12:46 AM PDT
That Obama guy ought to be President!
by dbratl on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:21:50 AM PDT
"It didn't look like a one-horse town, but try finding a decent hair jelly." -- Joel and Ethan Coen
by high coup haiku on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:25:48 AM PDT
I do understand the Hillary Clinton had to work harder and fight harder to get where she did than if she had been a man. I also accept that Condi Rice had to be "twice as good" in order to prevail and reach the high office she now occupies. What saddens me, as someone who strives to be color-blind and gender-neutral, is the apparent compromises both individuals seem to have decided were necessary to get ahead in the world. Hillary Clinton is capable of being a stunningly good orator and I have no doubt that she is an intellectual powerhouse. During the campaign it was possible to see her grow into the job of campaigning.
That said, she keeps bad company. She surrounded herself with people whose advice repeatedly lead her to shade the truth and dodge the hard questions. I am not a great fan of political dynasties, but I am even less of a fan of faux issues and sneak attacks on opponents. This country is in the mess it is because of that brand of political practice and ethics. We have the choice to turn the page, or to just read that same page over again. The tragedy is that both Clinton and Rice could have been towering figures, and almost were. But something sad happened along the way.
by arthura on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:01:51 AM PDT
woman candidate for the Presidency. Even though one may admire her intellectual qualities, her gritty resilience and her sheer toughness under great stress, she was a fundamentally flawed politician. Not only did she carry a lot of unsavory baggage from the past, but she displayed a lot of unpleasant characteristics during the campaign - she indulged in a series of manufactured falsehoods and outright dishonesty during much of the primary race. Many of us began to distrust her, so that after a while, a lot of what she said or promised on the stump seemed to be less and less believable...
I, for one, am glad that she will not be our first female President.
"The blackbird whirled in the autumn winds. It was a small part of the pantomime." Wallace Stevens
by mobiusein on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:47:25 AM PDT
lifestyle and press releases. She drank her own Kool-aide and has been blinded to her own weaknesses.
by Jbeaudill on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:35:35 AM PDT
...but, Obama was just better. Let's face it: If HRC had faced any of the recent Dem pols who actually made it to the nomination, she would have buried them long since. I believe that the Obama candidacy is a genuine phenomenon that was hard to predict or counter. Kudos to Team Obama, but give some respect where respect is due.
by 1arryb on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:50:29 AM PDT
... is not something we Americans have learned to do well. The communication of the confusion and pain of it all .. is an excellent and auspicious beginning.
The collective consciousness of Internet forums such as DailyKos are natural gathering points for the intention to move forward together in growth as a people and to assume our role as a valuable member of a harmonius, planetary communtiy.
Yes we can, for ... we are one.
by abarefootboy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:05:18 AM PDT
Clinton 'triangulation' was forced on Bill by an R-controlled congress - but he learned it in dealing with 12-years worth of redneck AR legislatures. And Hillary and Bill have a whole lot of overlap, but they are two separate people - albeit ones who've worked together for years - and have different styles.
by bfitzinAR on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:37:11 PM PDT
for reminding us of this. I too am 50 and a woman and have heard some of the same things you have. I was told by high school guidance counselors (and sadly, my own mother) to be a secretary or a teacher; I did, I was, but now am a Ph.D.
While I support Obama what I like is how she has energized older women who were told much more often than we were what they could or couldn't do. And I also appreciate the fact that my 11 yo daughter thinks that having a woman president is not only possible but probable. It definitely opens the doors for her generation as well.
Eyes on the Prize - JedReport
by juslikagrzly on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:45:38 AM PDT
while in HS and college. I went to a very selective, competitive college for both undergrad and graduate work, and in between I served in the Navy. Many, many times I was chastised for 'taking up a place' that should have gone to a man because after all I would probably one day just have kids and drop out of the workforce. As if having an education is of no value for someone raising children. As if you only 'deserve' an education and a career if you're going to dedicate your whole life to working for some corporation or spend 20+ years in the service. Oddly, I never heard anyone tell my male counterparts that they didn't deserve to be there just because they might choose to pursue a different path later in life.
"Going to church does not make us Christians any more than stepping into our garage makes us a car." --Rev R. Neville
by catleigh on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:57:56 AM PDT
I'm a manager at work and while my boss has trained other managers (male) to work the line in the kitchen, he still, 2 years later, has not trained me even though I've asked many many times. It's part of my job to jump on the line if necessary during a rush, but he still won't allocate the labor to train me for it.
One time I had to do the payroll because both my bosses were unavailable (one out of town, the other sick) and I learned my male counterpart manager made $1 per hour more than me for the same job (we started at the same time, when this place first opened). I have at least 5 years more experience than he does and am the one that helped train him at another job!
The vast majority of restaurant kitchens are male domains, females need not apply. Take a peek next time you go to one and see who's cooking.
"Watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, fanatical, criminal..."-7.75, -7.28
by solesse413 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:19:40 AM PDT
We really do need a change, a big change, from the way things work in Washington. Hillary would be too much like more of the same.
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction -- Pascal
by RJDixon74135 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:17:30 AM PDT
...and a large part of the current and historical base of the Democratic Party and historically active contributers.
If I am correct, and I believe the data over the last 40 years supports me, perhaps what Hillary did was get women "less invisible" to those who speak, are quoted, who describe and provide opinions.
by kck on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:06:28 AM PDT
wide narrow
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