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  •  One thing to consider (6+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Odysseus, Jerome a Paris, dnamj, MD patriot, Jagger, phonegery

    okay, several things:

    1. you're right in that the population explosion has been possible because of fossil fuel. But a huge amount of the food we grow now goes to feeding animals. That can change if it has to.
    1. The peak oil energy price increases will kill a lot of the demand that exists now (since fossil fuel is still relatively cheap)
    1. There will be more wars caused by rich nations trying to control the energy supplies they think they need.
    1. We have all the energy we need right now, falling on our heads. All we need to do is get serious about alternative energy the way we ramped up to fight WWII.

    "we must make the rescue of the environment the central organizing principle for civilization" - Al Gore

    by racerx on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:34:56 PM PDT

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    •  I disagree (0+ / 0-)

      I disagree. I think it will be countries like India and China that start the wars. Since they are poorer their economies will suffer first and also suffer the most. China only has a 12 day supply of coal!!!

      by morbie5 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:53:04 PM PDT

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      •  China won't need to start a war (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Ed in Montana, Jagger, marsanges

        They can simply threaten to destroy our currency, and we'll get in line. They own a huge pile of our debt, and all they need to do is sell it and we are toast.

        They would get hurt too, make no mistake, but that weapon would hurt us way more than them.

        "we must make the rescue of the environment the central organizing principle for civilization" - Al Gore

        by racerx on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:57:51 PM PDT

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        •  I think it was Dickens who said: (0+ / 0-)

          "if you owe your banker 100Pounds, he owns you. If you owe him 1,000 Pounds, you own him.".  I suspect the Chinese are familiar with the sentiment if not the actual quote.

          When we become disenchanted with the purity of Sen. Obama, let's think of John Roberts and Sam Alito when we think of the alternative.

          by Dave from Oregon on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:46:02 PM PDT

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        •  Oh the Chinese know the score... (0+ / 0-)

          and the dollar's days are numbered.  But they are taking their time and will try to lose as little skin as possible.  

          As the Fed open window to lending to banks allows a flood of Funny Money™ to return to the system, Japan's top economic advisors have recommended the government shed 80% of foreign reserves which are mostly US dollars rather than make a Sovereign Wealth Fund like China. This would kind of destroy the dollar, by the way. But instead, all of Asia without exception, have renewed buying and holding US dollars and assets so their own currencies can drop in value in concert with each other. Japan has ceased working with the other G7 to strong arm China into strengthening the yuan. Everyone is trapped in a system where everyone will be hurt when the US goes bankrupt. But now the conversation behind closed doors is, 'How do we salvage something for ourselves when this happens'.

          http://elainemeinelsupkis.typepad.co...

          -5.00 -4.46

          by ilex on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:02:16 PM PDT

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      •  Iraq (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Odysseus, Jerome a Paris, MD patriot, phonegery

        I disagree. I think it will be countries like India and China that start the wars.

        We, America, has already started one war over oil-the invasion of Iraq.  We are threatening another oil related war against Iran.

        Other reasons besides oil in these wars but oil is a major driver.

        by Jagger on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:10:29 PM PDT

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      •  Coal (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        MD patriot

        China has massive reserves of coal in the ground. That 12-day supply is a problem if they have a miners' strike. Otherwise, the only problem is that they've got plenty of coal to burn in the dirtiest ways.

        by wytcld on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:42:40 PM PDT

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        •  Coal (0+ / 0-)

          Well, they are buying coal from us now. So, I don't know why they would be doing such a thing if they had enough in the ground. I mean they are building a new coal plant a week. I doubt it clean coal either. lol.

          by morbie5 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:10:14 PM PDT

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          •  link? (0+ / 0-)

            you are referring to availability (what's mined) versus what's in the ground. China is well endowed with coal. But they've had some horrific accidents lately.

            china's also moving toward nuclear.

            Central PA Kossacks Austin is a big greeeen fog. (-0.12, -3.33)

            by terrypinder on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:16:59 PM PDT

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            •  Rate (0+ / 0-)

              I don't have the links. Your right, they do have a lot in the ground. Their on hand reserves have gone from 15 days to 12 days though. The fact that they can only mine so much is a big problem for them. It doesn't matter how much you have in the ground if you can't get it out at the rate you need.

              by morbie5 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:41:14 PM PDT

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    •  Link not working . . . n/t (0+ / 0-)

      by Creosote on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:11:21 AM PDT

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