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  •  If Obama plays this right, (24+ / 0-)

    McCain can kiss Ohio goodbye.  

    whenever i have nothing particular to say i find myself always always plunging into cosmic philosophy or something -- archy (Don Marquis)

    by mspicata on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 12:34:37 PM PDT

    •  Yes. He can knock (15+ / 0-)

      it out of the park.

      John McCain can't anticipate the bad effects of his anti-worker policies, but we can.

      "The answer is to end our reliance on carbon-based fuels." Al Gore, 7/17/08

      by TomP on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 12:36:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe I am missing something (0+ / 0-)

        But if a company that is losing money has to run more efficiently, that is bad? Isn't it better for DHL to cut some jobs and keep the rest instead of going out of business?

        I don't know the first thing about Wilmington, OH, but is DHL the only thing that uses the airport?

        Don't get me wrong - I feel bad for the workers, but if the business can't afford to pay them, what should it do?

        It's later than you think.

        by waltercrunkite on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 12:55:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes. (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Brooke In Seattle, cerulean, TomP

          Wilmington is where Airborne Express started. It's a town of 12,000. Was a military town, then the military stopped using its air force base, then the Airborne guys bought it up to start their business.

          Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

          Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

          by Jyrinx on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 12:59:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That is the problem (0+ / 0-)

            In this day and age towns like Detroit and Wilminton need to see how risky their economy is and do something to bring in other jobs. A one horse town can't survive.

            It has been 5 years since McCain pushed this deal. The town and its residents have been on notice, so they should have used that time to look for new options.

            It's later than you think.

            by waltercrunkite on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 01:07:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Riiiight ... (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              dsteele2, Ken in MN

              ... why don't those lazy slackers have something up their sleeve to replace, you know, the source of most of its jobs?!

              Five years? Give me a break. How is a town full of pilots supposed to adapt to a new line of work in five lousy years?

              Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

              Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

              by Jyrinx on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 01:09:52 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Okay (0+ / 0-)

                If you were a pilot or bag handler in Wilmington, OH, and the news all over town was that the largest employer recevied "permission" to close the airport hub, what would you do? Bury your head in the sand and hope that nothing ever changes?

                I would hope you would start to explore other options for employment/training for an in demand job, or consider relocation.

                It doesn't sound like this became a one industry town just five years ago. They should have diversified emlpoyment a long time ago.

                This is an unfortunate, but not unforeseeable fate for towns like Wilmington, and all the legislation in the world is not going to change that.

                This is not a question of lazy emlpoyees, it is a question for economic survival for DHL, which is ultimately responsible to its shareholders.

                It's later than you think.

                by waltercrunkite on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 01:51:22 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't blame DHL (0+ / 0-)

                  (though I have to wonder what the fuck they're thinking buying Airborne (hint, hint) and deciding all they really need are its trucks)

                  But for God's sake. The town is Airborne/DHL. Its major asset is its air force base. WTF are they going to "diversify" into? Remember, we're talking about a little town of 12,000 people.

                  And you suggest that the pilots should start looking for alternative employment now. Well, gee, ya think?

                  Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                  Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                  by Jyrinx on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 02:01:07 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  It seems like we basically agree. (0+ / 0-)

                    DHL is doing what it has to do. If it didn't come in to town when it did, this whole collapse would have just happened when the Air Force left town.

                    I have no idea what Wilmington is near, but when there was such a clear threat to its main employer, that should have sparked some action. This can not have come as a surprise.

                    I said all these employees should have started looking for new work five years ago when the writing was on the wall. Now it is too late.

                    Like I said, this is sad but not unforeseeable. If I was making mortgage payments from DHL, you can bet I would have done something to protect myself from this one huge employer shutting down.

                    It's later than you think.

                    by waltercrunkite on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 02:12:55 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  There *wasn't* a town to collapse (0+ / 0-)

                      before Airborne started up.

                      And I know what buyouts mean, but this looked pretty clearly like DHL was buying its way into a whole new market. It was an international shipper wanting a piece of the U.S. domestic pie. So it was entirely logical to think that they wouldn't be shutting down the Wilmington hub, especially since it makes no sense to buy Airborne just for its ground services (which had barely begun to exist).

                      Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                      Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                      by Jyrinx on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 02:19:57 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Again (0+ / 0-)

                        This goes to my point of one employer towns. It doesn't make sense to put all your money in one stock either.

                        People are rightly angry, put that anger is misdirected if you are mad about a decision McCain made five yeas ago.

                        It's later than you think.

                        by waltercrunkite on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 02:47:45 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Well, that and that his advisor (0+ / 0-)

                          made money off this deal. The involvement of efforts of lobbyists now advising McCain is what really tears it.

                          And I just don't think it's reasonable to go to all these one-employer towns and tell them to diversify. Diversify into what?

                          The best plan for this contingency, I'd say, would've been to be able to line up another company to take over the Air Force base, and to have some manner of safety net for the employees in the meantime. The latter, though, would likely need support at the state and federal levels, and, well, we know what the Reagan Era has meant for the idea of helping out people who actually need it when bad news hits the economy ...

                          Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                          Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                          by Jyrinx on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 02:53:33 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Are you really surprised (0+ / 0-)

                            that a Republican lobbyist made money off of a free trade agreement? If anything, you should be mad that a city/state dumped nearly half a billion dollars into "improvements" on the site.

                            You don't think it is reasonable for one employer towns to expand and diversify their tax base? Why in the world not?

                            Where I live there are mining towns moving into high paying skilled manufacturing jobs. It can be done. Vision into how to provide a stable economy should be a prime factor in selecting a local government. In fact, allowing one business to dominate the local economy shows the negligence of the local gov't.

                            Why would another company taking over the Air Force Base make any difference? This has nothing to do with foreign control. If UPS or FedEx ran this air port, the same thing would be happening.

                            What do you mean safety net for employees in the meantime?

                            It's later than you think.

                            by waltercrunkite on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 03:16:57 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                            •  Foreign control doesn't mean anything here, (0+ / 0-)

                              except that the deal shouldn't have happened and it took extra lobbying to push it through.

                              And I can see translating mining experience into skilled manufacturing experience. But these are pilots. It's not as clear what the low-hanging fruit would be.

                              By safety net, I just mean welfare and retraining programs (the usual crazy socialist nonsense :-) ).

                              Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                              Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                              by Jyrinx on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 03:22:55 PM PDT

                              [ Parent ]

                              •  Like you said (1+ / 0-)

                                Recommended by:
                                Jyrinx

                                Pilots are well paid. My uncle is a pilot for private Lear jets, and he is very busy. With more and more private planes coming to market, that might be an option. Certainly that is no help to the rest of the ground crews, but there are other options.

                                It is a sad fact that lobbying has so permeated all of government.

                                The funny thing is that we both agree that retraining is a key part of the equation.

                                All I am trying to point out is that the writing seemed to be on the wall for years. According to the artile provided, DHL moved small freight out of Wilmington in 2005. What other signs do people need that they are in trouble?

                                It's later than you think.

                                by waltercrunkite on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 03:58:15 PM PDT

                                [ Parent ]

                                •  Yeah ... mrmph. (1+ / 0-)

                                  Recommended by:
                                  waltercrunkite

                                  Well, come to think of it, I don't actually have any contact with Wilmington anymore (I only lived there from kindergarten through third grade). Maybe they have been doing something to prepare.

                                  Certainly one hope is that there'll still be a perfectly good airport lying around (with lots of spendy improvements, as mentioned elsewhere). If Airborne thought it a good idea to buy it up in the first place, maybe someone else will see an entrepreneurial opportunity too.

                                  Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

                                  Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

                                  by Jyrinx on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 04:06:15 PM PDT

                                  [ Parent ]

                •  Oh yes, Mr. Smug. It's just that easy (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  schnecke21
                  For one thing, let's take relocation - because I, having recently lost my job, get this question from everyone. Let's start with the practical. Let's say your assets are tied up in your house, like most peopoles". ALL the jobs leave town and foreclosures sweep through nit. What's your house worth now? Where do you get assets to fund the move and a residence in a new town? On an emotionl/social stability level, what if your family has been in this town for generations and you have elderly parents who are close to their friends, maybe even in a nursing home?
                  Finally, let's say you do go in hock and break all your ties and move away and now you're in a new city and you lose your job THERE because no jobs are stable these days. You're really up shit creek.

                  Yes, I know there's nothing secure anymore about these one-company towns, but blaming the employees for being shrotsighted is really insulting.

                  We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

                  by anastasia p on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 02:08:02 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I am not attacking you (0+ / 0-)

                    My point is that this is the problem with one employer towns. Near me, it is mining. When mines close, towns collapse, and it is hard on everyone.

                    Didn't you know there was only one employer in town when you bought a house? Didn't that scare you to death? I am not saying these things to insult you, but buying a house is a huge decision, and to do so in a place that is dependent on one employer is shortsighted.

                    Again, I have no idea where Wilmington is. Are there other cities/jobs around?

                    For better or worse, families are spread across the nation/globe these days. All of my extended family lived 1500 miles away, where we were rooted since the 1600s.

                    In a sense, we are all up shit creek.

                    I am not trying to be smug when I say "Best of luck to you." I truly mean it.

                    It's later than you think.

                    by waltercrunkite on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 02:23:14 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  don't know enough about it (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Jyrinx

          it all depends on where their money is leaking. Problem is far too often large corporations find it to be the easiest route to cut jobs. Its easier than trying to audit your expenditures and really create a solution for long term solvency.

          This is the real problem.

          It if is the only way for them to survive, but it should be a last resort not the first. And it may be. 8000 jobs cut, even at marginal salaries would number in the hundred of millions of dollars. But as a business owner, I'd want to find out how the hell I got into a situation where i was short by 500 million dollars and how i could fix it.

          Give Em Hell!! OBAMA 08

          by mdmslle on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 01:03:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And how it happened (4+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Brooke In Seattle, TomP, mdmslle, Jyrinx

            in five short years.  It would be interesting to see what assurances DHL gave Wilmington and Ohio before they plowed $400 million into improvements.

            whenever i have nothing particular to say i find myself always always plunging into cosmic philosophy or something -- archy (Don Marquis)

            by mspicata on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 01:05:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Actually, the pilots were well-paid. (0+ / 0-)

            My mother knew of pilots who missed their sons' birthdays because they had to work. No-one wanted to risk losing their job, because they were actually well-treated.

            FUCK, that's the problem. "You're decent to your employees to earn their loyalty?! Well, that's your problem right there!"

            Denny Crane: But if he supports a law, and then agrees to let it lapse … then that would make him …

            Shirley Schmidt: A Democrat.

            by Jyrinx on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 01:07:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Good point (0+ / 0-)

            Again, I am guessing, but I bet that the cost of operating and licensing an airport is the real problem, not the wages.

            It's later than you think.

            by waltercrunkite on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 01:10:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  All Obama needs is a hard-hitting ad (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      mjd in florida

      containing the facts of this post. He'll be DOA in Ohio before Labor Day. Some maverick! Meh!

      McCain: "I think that clearly my fortunes have a lot to do with what's happening in Iraq" ... Buh-bye!

      by RevJoe on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 12:53:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Telling 50-60 year olds that are losing (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        schnecke21, eXtina

        their jobs to head over to the Community College and get retrained (for another non-existent job?) was not a very intelligent thing to say.  Just sayin'...  (that just pisses people off more)

        •  Kinda what Hillary said (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          mjd in florida
          the day she lost me over a year ago.

          We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

          by anastasia p on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 02:09:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  That is difficult (0+ / 0-)

          But moving into a one horse town is extremely risky.

          These people allowed themselves to become dependent on DHL.

          This is not something that just came out of the blue. If there were negotiations to walk away from the airport five years ago, that should have been a huge warning to everyone.

          Of course people losing their jobs don't want to hear about what they should have done five years ago, but that does not change the fact that they became dependent on one employer and the city did nothing to protect itself.

          It's later than you think.

          by waltercrunkite on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 02:39:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  And without Ohio... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      mjd in florida, mdmslle

      Senator McShame might as well spend the next three months polishing his concession speech!

    •  We Ohioans are doing our best (0+ / 0-)

      to see that that happens.

      We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

      by anastasia p on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 02:04:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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