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View Diary: Immigration "Experts" Tied To White-Supremacist (66 comments)

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  •  This is why you suck (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Timaeus

    My loving marriage of 17 years is now a symbol of inequality and discrimination.

    by coigue on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 08:51:35 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  What Do You Propose? (0+ / 0-)

      Are you saying that we should change U.S. immigration law to state that if you can make it across the U.S. border, have a child, and stay under the radar for four or five years, you should be entitled to U.S. citizenship by virtue of your U.S. born child?

      If this is what you are trying to say, if this is what you are advocating for, why not just be fucking honest with yourself, and be fucking honest with everybody here -- and say it.

      Don't simply try to imply it by virtue of saying that 'I suck'. Say It! And Keep Saying It!

      Say it here now. "I Believe That U.S. Immigration Law Should Be Changed To Grant U.S. Citizenship To All Illegal Immigrants Who Have A U.S. Born Child, And All Illegal Immigrants Who Can Enter The U.S. And Have A Child Should Also Be Granted U.S. Citizenship".

      Again, I encourage you to write this here on Daily Kos over and over again as often as you can.

      Noriko Calderon, wearing her school uniform, was being forced to make one of the most wrenching choices of her young life: To stay in the country of her birth rather than join her parents being deported to the Philippines

      Yet if Noriko Calderon is born in the Philippines there is no consternation about her leaving the country of her birth to join her parents in Japan.

      <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

      by superscalar on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 09:11:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wow, dude. take a breather (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Timaeus, Hawksana, coigue, whitewidow, cacamp

        How about a more calm discussion huh?
        How about we give each of these people a chance to decide in court whether or not we should take them? Kind of like alimony or divorce court.  Are these people capable of leaving? Do they have someone to take care of their children? etc these kind of realistic questions that we ask of anybody else here.
        We have to be careful of making a blanket statement like the one you're making, this is a lot of people with a lot of complicated parts.
        The American deported at Bianco was mentally handicapped.  He didn't speak up for himself when he was deported.  He was deported to Laredo Mexico and has not been heard from since. His American family is looking for him.
        These are the kind of things that happen when we don't think through our immigration policy or fix it.

        •  And I do believe in 'Amnesty' BTW (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Timaeus, coigue, cacamp
        •  Why Was This Comment Tagged To My Post? (0+ / 0-)

          Wow, dude. take a breather

          Why was it not tagged to this post?

          How about a more calm discussion huh?

          Stupid me -- 'This is why you suck' obviously being a great example of 'calm discussion'.

          These are the kind of things that happen when we don't think through our immigration policy or fix it

          Your implication is that U.S. immigration policy is 'broken'. First, I reject your premise, secondly, the 'fixes' that I have seen only make the problem worse, not better.

          <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

          by superscalar on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 09:24:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  gee....hateful beliefs vs angry language. (0+ / 0-)

            My loving marriage of 17 years is now a symbol of inequality and discrimination.

            by coigue on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 09:25:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  because you think more immigrants is "Worse" (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Timaeus, coigue

            ergo- you don't like immigrants.  You may not feel that way, but that's how you sound.
            When someone is a citizen, they pay into our system, they spend money, they participate.  Are you a little worried about illegal immigrants coming out of the shadows and participating?

            •  Bullshit (0+ / 0-)

              because you think more immigrants is "Worse"

              Number one, you are conflating. Illegal immigration is not immigration, and it will not constitute the legal immigration process, no matter how much you try to conflate the two.

              Are you a little worried about illegal immigrants coming out of the shadows and participating

              No, I am worried about what happens after that. If you are not a 'little worried about [the] illegal immigrants coming out of the shadows' today, why would have any problem with the illegal immigrants who come after them 'coming out of the shadows'?

              If you do not want to enforce immigration law today, why would you want to enforce immigration law tomorrow, or the next day, or ten years from now?

              <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

              by superscalar on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 09:40:53 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I do want to enforce the law (0+ / 0-)

                But the law doesn't work right now.  That's why we have americans being deported and illegal immigrants STILL coming.
                We are enforcing it. The problem is the laws we have are contradictory and can't be fixed overnight.
                We'd have to raise taxes to pay for the hugely expensive and enormous task of deporting 12 million people.  It's a ridiculous law and most enforcement know it.  
                Law enforcement wants at least to be able to pick and choose who out of the 12 million they go after. Shouldn't we be able to put priority on illegal criminals?  That's not what the law said.
                Immigration law can change you know, it has before.
                Do you think they made a mistake when they repealed The Chinese Exclusion Act?  You think more Chinese immigrants has totally led to lawlessness and a bad country?
                When a law doesn't work we change it. We've done it before and we'll do it again.

                •  No, We Are Not Enforcing The Law (0+ / 0-)

                  We are enforcing it. The problem is the laws we have are contradictory and can't be fixed overnight

                  Partially because USC 8 1324 cannot be enforced.

                  Beyond this, name me one illegal immigrant who has been prosecuted on felony perjury charges for fraudulently signing an I-9 Form?

                  When a law doesn't work we change it.

                  It doesn't work because the 'tamper proof ID' proposed with IRCA was not included in the final legislation, USC 8 1324 is toothless without that tamper proof ID, and groups like LULAC, MALDEF, and the NCLR have been fighting employer verification ever since 1986.

                  And neither S 2611, nor S 1348, nor any new 'comprehensive immigration reform' will change that, so what you will have with any new 'comprehensive immigration reform' is little more than changing the legal status of all illegal immigrants in the country and a resetting of the game -- and a pretense that we didn't do all of this once before in 1986.

                  <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

                  by superscalar on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:04:40 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  your interpretation of the bills above is (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Timaeus

                    "interesting" as well as your view of LULAC,Maldef, and NCLR.
                    You've obviously been watching too much Lou Dobbs, who quite frankly blames them for everything.  dobbs also blatantly lies about his facts, watch the 60 minutes piece if you don't believe that.
                    An illegal immigrant paying taxes is a good thing, it means they contribute to our society.  
                    Blaming them for fraud is a side issue, they wouldn't be committing fraud if they could get an ID.
                    But honestly I have better things to do than argue these points one by one, you still haven't acknowledged that the people in this post are connected to white supremacists and have suspect motives.
                    AILA, Maldef, Lulac, IPC, NCLR all are transparent in their funding and they're not going on tv giving their own statistics.

                    •  My Interpretation Of The Bills Is Correct (0+ / 0-)

                      If this were not true, given that you have any real understanding of either bill, you would point out my misinterpretation. You know it, I know it.

                      Blaming them for fraud is a side issue

                      I am not 'blaming them' for anything. At some point you might want to read an I-9 Form.

                      they wouldn't be committing fraud if they could get an ID

                      And they wouldn't have enter the U.S. illegally if the U.S. had just made it legal for them to enter. It's a ridiculous argument -- people wouldn't break the law if the law didn't exist in the first place.

                      <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

                      by superscalar on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:29:22 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You're not correct just because you say you are (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Timaeus

                        but the problem is I have a real job and a real (aka time consuming) answer just isn't possible right now.
                        But here's the short of it, and I'll make it simple for you:
                        Give people a way to come here to work and they won't jump the border fence.
                        People that are here already need a pathway to citizenship.
                        More people coming to this country to work isn't a bad thing, it makes us all more money, business, and commerce.
                        Now take a breath and stop getting heated about all the illegal immigrants ruining your town in Massachusetts

                        •  I Live In San Bernardino County, CA (0+ / 0-)

                          You're not correct just because you say you are

                          I realize that, and likewise you are not correct simply because you say you are. Unlike you I have done much of the research already, and I have been writing about illegal immigration here for about five years -- much longer than you have -- and you will notice that neither Senator Kennedy nor his staff (Crystal Patterson) post on Daily Kos about illegal immigration anymore, is this because I am wrong and they can prove it?

                          Now take a breath and stop getting heated about all the illegal immigrants ruining your town in Massachusetts

                          Once again, I live in the southern CA county which has most probably the largest and fastest growing population of illegal immigrants in the country.

                          <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

                          by superscalar on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:59:29 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  You mean you beat Kennedy and his staff? (0+ / 0-)

                            Wow man good job, I bet your research was so thought provoking and spot on that Kennedy went down in flames and he personally ran from your comments.
                            I know San Bernadino very well and it's had a history of recently fighting illegal immigration with dubious measures only to be defeated or repealed in courts.
                            Not because of you of course, but because other people like you out there, including the Minutemen Project.
                            No your district does not have the fastest growing illegal immigrant population out there.
                            In fact there's no way of knowing how many illegal immigrants are in a community unless you use dubious or negative tactics i.e. prison population, uninsured, etc but then I'm sure you know all of this because you think you're an expert after posting here for five years and researching lots of anti-immigrant group information.  
                            Maybe if you paid attention to other people besides Dobbs or Beck you'd actually understand that immigrants are a benefit to our economy.  The data is there, I just can't spend all day arguing your "five years" of misinformation.

                          •  actually (0+ / 0-)

                            superscalar beat Kennedy so bad he got cancer.

                            (what a joke)

                            My loving marriage of 17 years is now a symbol of inequality and discrimination.

                            by coigue on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 12:43:16 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  Its apparent that you know the know the ins and.. (0+ / 0-)

                        outs of the law, but there is one point I want to bring up. Our government is supposed to be set up to where if a law doesn't work, it needs to be changed. Its a matter of adapting to supply and demand. The fault of the laws as they are now is that they don't address the fairly recent societal changes where there is a large need for immigrant workers in this country as well as an equally large population of people from the South who migrate to the North. These people would much rather cross the border legally if this were not such a legnthy and unfair process. If the law that addresses immigration status addressed this need, the volume of "illegal immigration" would surely go down. Of course, this is an idea is what you disagree with. Do you really think this law is really protecting you from some kind of cultural takeover? Why do you oppose a law which provides legal means for immigrants to come to our country where their labor is obviously needed?

                        "cuz I can be your daddy be your rock an rolla, and you can be my sugar be my cherry cola!"

                        by The Return Of G0nzo on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 10:55:43 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  A Reply (0+ / 0-)

                          Our government is supposed to be set up to where if a law doesn't work, it needs to be changed

                          Great, let's change the law and either require a biometrically encoded Social Security card which must be presented when applying for a job, such that USC 8 1324 can be enforced against those who hire illegal immigrants, or do away with the 'knowingly' clause of USC 8 1324. Also let's stop pretending that I-9 law doesn't exist, that it wasn't created specifically in 1986 to prosecute illegal immigrants who fraudulently applied for work in the U.S.

                          While we're at it, let's change the law to make a violation of USC 18 1546 a felony with mandatory jail time for the first offense.

                          The fault of the laws as they are now is that they don't address the fairly recent societal changes where there is a large need for immigrant workers in this country as well as an equally large population of people from the South who migrate to the North.

                          What came first, the ubiquitous Del Taco every quarter mile in southern CA, or the eruption of the illegal immigrant population in the U.S.?

                          These people would much rather cross the border legally if this were not such a legnthy and unfair process.

                          Look at the immigration statistics. Where are the most legal immigrants granted LPR in the U.S. from? Where have the majorities been coming from for the past twenty years? Where does Pew estimate the majority of illegal immigrants are from?

                          Beyond this, you call the process 'unfair', and to an extent I agree. Immigration policy in the U.S. has been skewed towards family reunification over skills since 1965. During the debate in 2007 there was an attempt made to balance the priority more towards needed skills. Guess what the response of the Democrats and the Congressional Hispanic Caucus was?

                          Do you really think this law is really protecting you from some kind of cultural takeover?

                          One of the most valuable things I learned in the military was 'assumption is the mother of a fuck up'. My neighbors are illegal immigrants, and they have been for years ... are yours?

                          Why do you oppose a law which provides legal means for immigrants to come to our country where their labor is obviously needed?

                          A source of every cheaper labor is what is neeeded. I will refer you to my comment regarding the Del Tacos, the El Pollo Locos, etc. on virtually every corner in Southern CA. Do you think that these places would exist if they couldn't buy their beef for .79 a pound from processors who hire illegal immigrants? Do you think they would exist if they couldn't pay their staff minimum wage? Do you think they would exist if they couldn't sell a bean burrito for sixty-nine cents? How do you think they are able to sell that bean burrito for sixty-nine cents in the first place?

                          <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

                          by superscalar on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:24:06 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I am not a lawyer so I am not proposing what... (0+ / 0-)

                            the law should be. If you agree that the current law is unfair, then we are in agreement that it should change. That is the main point. I can admit that I assumed your reasons for opposing immigration was xenophobic. I could be wrong about your position although the way you disdainfully talk about cheap burritos makes me wonder. The demand for cheap labor is the result of capitalism. If our society wishes to stay competitive, then the laws must adapt to the market, which they obviously haven't since 1986, even though Bush said he would do something about this issue. He spent all that time and money trying to build a wall and yet we are still very far away from proper Immigration Reform. All the Immigrants wanted to do was come here and build burritos, houses, or whatever, so they and their family can survive. I tell you one thing, I live in Brooklyn, and you can't find any cheap burritos around here; and you're complaining about it?

                            "cuz I can be your daddy be your rock an rolla, and you can be my sugar be my cherry cola!"

                            by The Return Of G0nzo on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 11:40:27 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  No, superscalar, you are completely wrong. (0+ / 0-)

                        You say "bills" when you mean "laws."

                        You're spewing straight white supremacist hate speech.

                        You're WRONG!

                        As a lawyer, I find your attempts to argue law to be so supercilious as to defy rebuttal.

                        You get your "facts" from Norm Matloff, right?

                        •  No, I Don't Mean Laws (0+ / 0-)

                          You say "bills" when you mean "laws."

                          Neither S 2611 nor S1348 were signed into law. I meant exactly what I said, legislation, or prospective legislation.

                          You're spewing straight white supremacist hate speech.

                          I'm sorry you feel this way.

                          You're WRONG!

                          You've already said this, but you have yet to say where I am wrong.

                          As a lawyer, I find your attempts to argue law to be so supercilious as to defy rebuttal

                          How convenient for you -- no?

                          <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

                          by superscalar on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 07:42:38 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

      •  repeat after me a thousand (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        coigue

        I hate Mexicans, I hate Mexicans, I hate Mexicans and I use lies to further that hate, again, again, again, keep saying it so we'll all know you better.

      •  I propose you grow a fucking heart. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Timaeus

        And yeah...I think children should have a right to parents....adn should not be punished for their parents' choices.

        It's not about principle, it's about making healthy families---not dysfunctional ones.

        Gatekeeping Asshole.

        And yeah, I am proud of my position.

        And I know what your positions are so we don't need to get into it again.

        My loving marriage of 17 years is now a symbol of inequality and discrimination.

        by coigue on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 09:22:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Wind of Japanese citizen will Noriko make? (0+ / 0-)

        A good, patriotic, useful one? Or a resentful one?

        Your holier than thou crap makes for bad policy.

        My loving marriage of 17 years is now a symbol of inequality and discrimination.

        by coigue on Mon Apr 13, 2009 at 09:24:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You sure are an asshole! (0+ / 0-)

        You're claiming that I, and all of my immigration lawyer colleagues, are motivated by nothing more than money.

        Fool!  That's a Republican-style talking point.

        I happen to practice immigration law for religious reasons. I'm afraid they would be over your head.

        One thing is clear: money is all that YOU care about.

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