Skip to main content

View Diary: A Possible Opening for U.S. Peace Efforts in the Middle East (205 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Right (3+ / 0-)

    and since I believe I oppose the Occupation then I do oppose the Occuption. Because I don't endorse your measures doesn't mean I agree with it, it just means I think your measures are not the right ones. Period.

    "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

    by volleyboy1 on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:37:19 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  No (5+ / 0-)

      since I believe I oppose the Occupation then I do oppose the Occuption

      That would be incorrect.

      Policy, Peace and Progress Before Party

      by Alec82 on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:38:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh well thank you for (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Paul in Berkeley, JNEREBEL, Red Sox

        telling what I believe in and what I support and oppose. I had no idea you could read my thoughts. Should I start praying to you on Shabbat? I mean you can see my innermost thoughts.

        OH WAIT... this is based on my opposition to that Craptastic ASUC Bill. That I, and others in the Progressive Zionist wing opposed rightly calling it an attack on Israel..... Of course... I forgot if I don't oppose things the way you believe I should, why I must support them.

        My bad.

        "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

        by volleyboy1 on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:50:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well I'm just a right winger.. (4+ / 0-)

          ....according to you, so I'm sure that you a) don't want to pray to me (my lack of religion makes no such demands upon you in any event), and b) can sleep comfortably at night, firm in the belief that it is solely your opposition to the ASUC bill that forms the basis for my opinion.  

          Policy, Peace and Progress Before Party

          by Alec82 on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:52:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well it is true your tactics and (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Paul in Berkeley, Red Sox

            parochialism do certainly put you more to the Right than the left on this issue. I mean you only care about your side, you villify those who disagree with you, you basically bend truth to fit your points. I don't see that as particularly progressive. I can't imagine that completely blowing off the wishes of 5.5-6 million Israelis is particularly a liberal value either.

            Oh and I sleep quite comfortably at night well... that's not true - I have a bit of a prostate issue and I have to pee a lot but aside from that... I know I sleep comfortably when I do sleep. Thanks for the concern though.  

            "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

            by volleyboy1 on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:57:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  i agree with this... (3+ / 0-)

              I mean you only care about your side, you villify those who disagree with you, you basically bend truth to fit your points. I don't see that as particularly progressive. I can't imagine that completely blowing off the wishes of 5.5-6 million Israelis is particularly a liberal value either.

              as a general rule in these discussions wholeheartedly. more heat than light.

              "You can make a profound intellectual statement just by basing your efforts on silliness." -- Donald Roller Wilson

              by canadian gal on Thu May 13, 2010 at 02:03:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Parochialism? (4+ / 0-)

              As opposed to the avariciousness and atavism that seems to motivate so many others?

              I mean you only care about your side

              I hate to frustrate your attempt to paint me as an anti-Zionist who hates his ideological opponents, but I'm a non-Zionist (or "azionist" perhaps?) who simply opposes the Occupation generally and, more specifically, the American support for it.  So are most of the others you are locked in debate with.

              you villify those who disagree with you

              I disagree with them.  If I had an interest in villifying you, I would do so.  

              you basically bend truth to fit your points

              This is a common argument made against the Left by the right and center.  I've never had much use for it; if you could point to specific examples, that would be appreciated.

              I can't imagine that completely blowing off the wishes of 5.5-6 million Israelis is particularly a liberal value either.

              As I have explained to you, along with weasel, heathlander, unspeakable, Aunt Martha and the gods only know how many others, the legitimate wishes of the Israelis, for peace, security, and the rest, are not being blown off.  None of those interests justify the Occupation.  That's where you seem to have the hang up.  

              Two states, one state, whatever; a negotiated solution to the conflict is favored by pretty much everyone you are arguing with.  Of course the Israelis have a say; right now, the revealed preference appears to be for a single, Jewish ruled state where Palestinians do not have political rights.  That's not a legitimate interest; Israel may have a single state if it wishes, but not at the expense of the rights of others.

              Policy, Peace and Progress Before Party

              by Alec82 on Thu May 13, 2010 at 02:09:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I am not trying to paint you as anything (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Paul in Berkeley, JNEREBEL

                Unlike you, I don't label you as something you say you are not. If you say you are "azionist" I can believe that. I too oppose the Occupation and American support for it. Funny, we agree on that issue. I just don't agree with all of your tactics and since I don't you try to peg me as a supporter of the Occupation. That's one difference between you and I.

                You villify me by saying that I support the Occupation. Sorry but you do.

                As for Israel.... Your posts speak for themselves.

                "No Groin.... No Krav Maga" - The Simpsons

                by volleyboy1 on Thu May 13, 2010 at 02:25:17 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Oh please (4+ / 0-)

                  You've referred to me as an anti-Zionist and a right winger before.  You just stated that I had no consideration for what the Israelis want.  I have given great weight to their stated preferences and to their revealed preferences.  

                  In fact, that's a concept you should play with for a while.  Students of social and policy sciences (and I know you were one at one point) are of course familiar with the distinction.  A stated preference is, as it sounds, revealed through a statement or articulated position of the speaker.  A revealed preference is behavior that is either consistent or inconsistent with stated preferences.  A stated preference, for example, is the two state solution.  A revealed preference would be the various "facts on the ground" that are inconsistent with that stated preference.

                  Another stated preference is "I oppose the Occupation."  

                  Policy, Peace and Progress Before Party

                  by Alec82 on Thu May 13, 2010 at 02:32:12 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Isn't an (6+ / 0-)

                "azionist" one who believes in allowing the indigenous Mexicans to return home to Arizona?

                /Here all week, try the veal

        •  the zionist movement only has one wing (0+ / 0-)

          That's why your shit don't fly here.  

          I will vote, but always with a caution that voting is not crucial, and organizing is the important thing.

          by General Choomin on Fri May 14, 2010 at 12:31:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site