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  •  No indication of this (none)
    I think he wanted Israel to vanish as an entity

    other than our own and Israel's long term public campaign to define Arab and especially Palestinian  objectives and mindsets.

    Wanting Israel to be accountable for its own founding and responsible for the consequences therein is not the same thing as "wanting it to disappear as an entity" no matter who much Israeli governmental leadership wants to make those two things parallel.

    "Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself." -- Martin Vanbee

    by a gilas girl on Sun Mar 21, 2004 at 03:23:16 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  I think you're being naive (none)
      if you don't believe that bin Laden wishes the destruction of Israel.  It's absurd to believe that he (or most of the suicide bombers and their organizations) "want Israel to be accountable for its own founding and responsible for the consequences therein."  They simply don't believe in the legitimacy of the state of Israel.  I think the policies of Sharon are terrible, and Israel should withdraw from the settlements. But Israelis have to be convinced that a two state solution will not be the first step toward their destruction.
      •  I may be many things (none)
        but naive about the way the world views Israel is not one of them.

        "Destruction of the state of Israel" is a 60's era (or 70's era) position in the Arab world; while we like to think the Arab world never changes, they are part of the world and know that "destruction of the state of Israel" is nothing more than empty rhetoric for propaganda purposes.  

        "Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself." -- Martin Vanbee

        by a gilas girl on Mon Mar 22, 2004 at 02:54:43 AM PST

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      •  belief in legitimacy (none)
        They simply don't believe in the legitimacy of the state of Israel.  I think the policies of Sharon are terrible, and Israel should withdraw from the settlements. But Israelis have to be convinced that a two state solution will not be the first step toward their destruction.

        Whether or not they believe in the "legitimacy" of the state of Israel is irrelevant (they don't believe in the "legitimacy" of any non-Islamic orientation to the world, either, but don't set out to destroy everything "not Islamic" rather they have a more strategic orientation to these questions.  They know the state of Israel exists.

        Convincing Israelis that it is not still the early days of the state of Israel and that "destruction" is the goal of their enemies is a harder task, too much of the ethos and identity of that state is invested in that piece of "common sense" to expect to convert the citizens to another path.  They are also not ready to be honest about what they now mean when they talk about fears of the "destruction of Israel" which have less to do with fear of an all Arab war/terror attack and a whole lot more to do with the demographic realities of the region and the fact that world consensus on the Israeli occupation is shifting.  

        "Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself." -- Martin Vanbee

        by a gilas girl on Mon Mar 22, 2004 at 03:00:19 AM PST

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