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View Diary: Following up on Nancy's Fighting Words ... (152 comments)

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  •  The real reason gas prices are high (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SecondComing

    seems to be that we now are competing with other nations such as China who have already run out of oil and gas and thus are willing to pay more.

    China already has almost as many cars on the road as we do and seems to be talking to everyone, going to Venezuala and SE Asia and negotiating with the Russians for a pipeline to the Pacific.

    Despite that, we need an end to oil company tax breaks and subsidies and even allowing office workers can use mass transit in many cities, a windfall profits tax to give relief to carpenters and truck drivers and other people who use their vehicles for work.

    Live Free or Die (-8.88 -9.49) IMPEACH

    by rktect on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 10:09:55 AM PDT

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    •  Refineries (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bronte17, greenearth

      It's the refineries who are profiting most and creating a shortage.

      The oil company refineries set the 'wholesale' price for gas, diesel, fuel oil, etc.

      It is this step of the processing at which the oil companies are making the record profits.

      It's not the pumps or the raw oil that matters as much as the refined petrochemical product pricing.

      The refineries are operating at 85% instead of 95% capacity is creating an artificial shortage during peak summer travel months.  This seems very similar to the artificial shortages that were created by Enron in California for electricity and natural gas a few years back.  I'm sure Californians still remember these.  This is the result of both de-regulation and the consolidation into near monopolies.  Anti trust laws need to be applied immediately.  Who has standing?

      So, it's not the raw oil supply that's driving the demand, since Venezuela and other nations are announcing recent major oil discoveries.  These discoveries should even sate China in the very near term.

      When life gives you wingnuts, make wingnut butter!

      by antirove on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 11:27:56 AM PDT

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    •  I heard yesterday that China only imports 12% (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rktect

      of their energy needs.  Can that be true?  

      "Yes dear. Conspiracy theories really do come true." (tuck, tuck)

      by tribalecho on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 12:02:44 PM PDT

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      •  That's because (0+ / 0-)

        about 70% comes from coal, as opposed to only about 24% in the U.S.

      •  World Oil Reserves and Usage Rates (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        frisco, Tinfoil Hat, Pam from Calif

        World Oil Reserves and Usage Rates

        Lets say that in 1980 there were a projected total of 1500- 2000 Bbo in World Oil reserves and that in 1980 the World had used 500, had another 500 in proven reserves and expected to find another 500-1000 Bbo by 2100.

        With unrestricted production and increasing demand and more oil used and less oil discovered than we thought, we have run out out even faster.

        Today the numbers are probably closer to a projected total of 1500 Bbo in World Oil reserves of which the World has used 750, has another 250 in proven reserves and expects to find another 250 Bbo by 2100.

        The usage rate is about 84 Mbo day which gives us about another 8 years to have either discovered the projected 250 Bbo expected to be discovered by 2100, or to have run completly dry.

        Meanwhile the rate of increase of use is increasing at an increasing rate and there is so far no indication of anybody conserving anything.

        Long before we run completly dry people will start having major proplems with supply, prices will increase to maybe $100 gallon, or to put it another way people will be willing to carjack you dead for the contents of your gas tank.

        Societal disruption will be augmented by global warming so that the cornfields that are expected to produce the corn for the ethenol will be deserts and the great agricultural basins of the west which depend on snow melt to provide water will discover there no longer is any snow melt or water, and the fisheries will be devoid of fish because we have killed off the reefs, and the cities will be both drowned and hungry.

        Live Free or Die (-8.88 -9.49) IMPEACH

        by rktect on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 01:45:52 PM PDT

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      •  China has used up their oil (0+ / 0-)

        but finds it very difficult to import from the Middle East.

        That is probably one reason we are in Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Iraq, Iran and the rest of the mideast, so that China can't beg borrow or steal access to the refineries of the Gulf by fomenting revolution with the shia down around Basra and then rigging a pipeline across Iran.

        China is also shut out of the Pacific Rim and SE Asia by Japan, and has been negotiating like hell with Russia for a pipeline to run to the Pacific.

        Most of the oil that remains is in Canada and Russia, we have about 600-700 Million barrels in reserve in the US which is enough with conservation and rationing to hold us for about 2 weeks if every other source dried up.

        Live Free or Die (-8.88 -9.49) IMPEACH

        by rktect on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 01:53:36 PM PDT

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    •  The 'real' reason? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      esquimaux

      You drank the kool-aid. Same old crap about the price of oil being set by free market competition. It ain't. Period. You've been lied to by the media, the talking heads, and the president. Don't believe it, and when we get access to Dick Cheney's secret Energy Policy papers, we will have the truth.

      Global warming is real. Fossil fuels are being abused. But my point is that this does not make it OK to rip us off.

      •  Free Market ? oxymoron? (0+ / 0-)

        I don't dispute we have all been lied to by the media, the talking heads, and the president among others. Most of us are used to being able to identify those issue and research them for ourselves.

        In 1993 we put in a new city at Hawtah, SA. That was the last major field discovered. One reason we are getting in bed with the UAE is its proximity to Hawtah's gas fields in the empty quarter is much closer than the Easterns regions refineries running from Abquaiq up to Basra.

        The Chinese have run out of oil, the Saudis are washing the last remnants from their old fields, there isn't much left on the continental shelfs offshore, the Venezulian oil is sour or high in sulpher, the Canadian oil is shale, and the Chinese have now sucessfully negotiated a pipeline to bring the Russian oil to the Pacific coast. (Think big time environmental disaster.)

        We have also lied to ourselves about global warming and running out of energy. I can remember it being a hot topic in the sixties and again with Carter who advocated conservation. Big oil took that series with the Reagan years and we all went back to the "I can't drive 55" mentality.

        Nobody here disputes global warming is real or that we have made a huge mistake in using up our fossil fuels. The problem is that most of us live on a budget that can afford cheap oil but not a new car that can run on ethanol, photovoltaics, passive solar or windturbines.

        For Republicans the problem of supply and demand comes down to dominate or submit. That may work when you are the packs Alpha male or sole super power, but what happens when the young wolves decide its time to take down an older, weaker, ailing, isolated rival.

        China is definitely following the Avis manual. "We're number two but we try harder." The Chinese have just made the grand tour of every oil producing nation on the planet and are trying to get rights to drill for oil in Nigeria.

        Live Free or Die (-8.88 -9.49) IMPEACH

        by rktect on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 04:21:55 AM PDT

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