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View Diary: Sigh... Sierra Club still trying to justify Chafee endorsement (219 comments)

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  •  Head-Bashing (9+ / 0-)

    This is just another example of the expectation of lock-step frog marching whether on the left or on the right.  Sure it would have been nice if the Sierra Club would have taken even a neutral position on this one.  I suspect they want to keep their foot in the Republican door as any advocacy group would.  And if I remember correctly, Republicans were way out front of Democrats a hundred years ago on conservation - - so parties do change.  Progressives do themselves no favors by bashing the Sierra Club.  The only thing we do is further fragment the progressive movement - while Rove & Company laugh all the way to the bank.

    •  Sheesh (0+ / 0-)

      More sacred cow-ism.

      I assume you won't be criticizing any Democrats on that theory.

      "All knew that Armando was an Armory of Wisdom. But then, who are these with whom Armando crossed verbal swords?"

      by Armando on Mon May 01, 2006 at 10:32:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No (5+ / 0-)

        But why not just disagree and move on?
        We need the SIerra Club and they need us -
        And most of the time we're on the same page.
        Why get involved in a circular firing squad?

        •  What exactly is it that you are objecting to? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DelRPCV

          That Kos posted a response to the false e-mail from the Sierra Club?

          Sorry, that is weak.

          The Sierra Club is NOT a  sacred cow and kos is rightly taking them to task just as you no doubt will Dems who vote in ways you disapprove of.

          This complaining is hypocritical and ridiculous.

          "All knew that Armando was an Armory of Wisdom. But then, who are these with whom Armando crossed verbal swords?"

          by Armando on Mon May 01, 2006 at 10:40:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Beg Your Pardon? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RickWn, saccharin girl

            Armando -

            Please spare me the hypocitical, ridiculous stuff.
            I simply do not agree or see any potential in this approach. The only thing it does is further splinter the progressive movement.

            The Sierra Club is not likely to change its mind.  Sierra Club members have a higlevel of commitment to their organization.  If forced into an either/or situation - I believe that most would side with Sierra Club. So where does that get you?  A bunch of miffed people expending energy that could be better put to use elsewhere.  The Sierra Club has chosen to endorse Chaffee for its owns reasons - perhaps due to his voting record, perhaps due to political maneuvering.  It's their choice.  

            I'm not saying the Sierra Club is above criticism - but Chaffee is no Ted Stevens.  It a non-starter.

            •  Pardon me? (0+ / 0-)

              So you disagree with kos on this. As tactics? Not on the merits?

              Ok. I disagree with your disagreement.

              I find it ridiculous.

              "All knew that Armando was an Armory of Wisdom. But then, who are these with whom Armando crossed verbal swords?"

              by Armando on Mon May 01, 2006 at 11:11:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  When I agree with more than 40% of (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Armando, DelRPCV

                what Armando writes in any given thread you know the opposing side has just gone and lost it's mind.

                We should be nice to the Sierra Club and not call out their bullshit so that their members will visit DKos more often???? WTF?

                Of course the Sierra Club isn't going to back down now. They have so completely screwed the situation for themselves the only thing they can do is stand still and be pilloried by people with truth on their side.

                So that means we should just leave them alone? Why? They are effectively defrauding their members via their actions in this election. I think that warrants a little more than disapproving silence.

                To lodge all power in one party and keep it there is to insure bad government and the sure and gradual deterioration of the public morals. - Mark Twain

                by Windowdog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 11:28:28 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  And stop with the red herrings (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              vtdem

              Linc Chafee is not running against Ted Stevens. He is running against Shedlon Whitehouse.

              "All knew that Armando was an Armory of Wisdom. But then, who are these with whom Armando crossed verbal swords?"

              by Armando on Mon May 01, 2006 at 11:12:55 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Armando? (7+ / 0-)

                The Ted Stevens comment was about how the Sierra Club sees it.  One thing I have noticed about DKos is that many people have a heckuvatime trying to see how others might view things.  Yes, I would have rather seen an endorsement of Whitehouse or no endorsement at this point - but the Sierra Club chose to act otherwise.  And from the Sierra Club perspective - not a red herring perspective - Chaffee is very, very different than Stevens.  Their own bylaws require tham to be nonpartisan which, I'm sure, is very hard to do.  Chaffee is their best bet.  His record isn't perfect - better on legislation - worse on confirmations - but confirmations are part of the political ballgame and Chaffee is a Republican, after all.  Do I want to see Chaffee defeated?  You betcha - precisely because he cannot be depended upon on critical nominations.  But there are better ways to do it than going after the Sierra Club.

                Let it go - -

                •  Kos is trying to sell books, that's all. (5+ / 2-)

                  Come on folks, this is a central theme of his book.  He is pushing that theme.  The reason should be clear to all... we don't need Drudge to tell us that sales haven't been that great.

                  It should be clear to Kos that this kind of rabid infighting is totally pointless and counterproductive.  He is thinking from a Dem-view, not a Enviro-view: after all, consider that the GOP stands a good chance of maintaining their strangle hold on the country for the next decade or so.  Might it not be in the interest of the SC, therefore, to maintain and establish some ties with the GOP?

                  •  Absolutely! (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    RickWn

                    And can't folks at DKos see why Sierra Club might choose to do something - even if we might choose to do otherwise?  Disagree - then move on.

                  •  long term v. short term (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Go Vegetarian

                    Exactly.

                    Markos cannot think beyond Nov 2006.  All he cares about is a Dem majority.  That is his holy grail.  He cares about nothing else.

                    We environmentalists are in this for the long term.  We are playing a much more complicated game than Markos can even imagine, because, literally, the future of the planet depends on it.

                    All the progressive politics, none of the sexist aftertaste: BooMan Tribune

                    by DisputoErgoSum on Mon May 01, 2006 at 12:04:17 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  OH come off it. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      vtdem, DelRPCV

                      Exactly what enviroment are you looking forward to "long term" if the Dems can't win back the house or the senate this year? Mining and drilling applications are being rubberstamped at a frenzied pace, illegal logging keeps being white washed, polluters are being held to near zero accountability, no one is even proposing new CAFE standards....

                      But the "movement's" long term viability is more important than kicking the party run by the polluter out of power? What a bunch of self serving navel gazing.

                      This was a stupid move flat out, and they need to be called on it just like anyone else.

                      To lodge all power in one party and keep it there is to insure bad government and the sure and gradual deterioration of the public morals. - Mark Twain

                      by Windowdog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 12:24:29 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Selling books? (0+ / 0-)

                    Huh?

                    "All knew that Armando was an Armory of Wisdom. But then, who are these with whom Armando crossed verbal swords?"

                    by Armando on Mon May 01, 2006 at 12:40:38 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  The Sierra Club perspective (0+ / 0-)

                  seems to follow a red herring as TED STEVENS is NOT on the ballot in Rhode Island.

                  Their e-mail is a lie is what you are saying.

                  I agree.

                  "All knew that Armando was an Armory of Wisdom. But then, who are these with whom Armando crossed verbal swords?"

                  by Armando on Mon May 01, 2006 at 12:40:06 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Indeed! (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              vtdem, DelRPCV, JanL

              As you say, "Sierra Club members have a higlevel (sic) of commitment to their organization."

              Oh that they had a similarly high level of commitment to the environment.

              Were that the case, they would hold their noses and endorse Democrats rather than diving into the cesspool headfirst and endorsing Republicans. They would also note rather sharply neither party has done anything more than offer palliative care to a global environment that is in the midst of a series of systemic failures.

    •  Further fragment? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Armando

      They just endorsed Chaffee? Are you theorizing that if we're mean to them they're going to endorse Trent Lott for president?

      They're just simply flat wrong on this one and they know they are. I'm guessing they feel this is a minor betrayal in search of the greater good. But if so they have seriosuly lost their way and I see no harm in calling them on it.

      To lodge all power in one party and keep it there is to insure bad government and the sure and gradual deterioration of the public morals. - Mark Twain

      by Windowdog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 10:57:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  calling them... (5+ / 1-)
        Recommended by:
        RickWn, HarveyMilk, johnnygunn, saccharin girl, melvin
        Hidden by:
        Armando

        "calling them on it" is one thing... continually bashing them and calling them "wankers" only serves to fragment our movement.

        actually, kos' book-selling bashing of the sierra club probably will help them in the long run... they can say to GOPers, "see we're pretty moderate after all.  even dailykos hates us and calls us wankers."

        •  Yeah (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RickWn, saccharin girl

          I noticed the term "wankers", too.  Not exactly promoting courteous discussion - especially among allies.

          •  Understandable mistakes call for courteious (0+ / 0-)

            grammar. Whole sale treachery against the interests of their supposed cause and very reason for existence allows for more than a little rage and discourteous discourse.

            Wanker is just about the politest adjective I can think of for the people who pulled the trigger on this one.

            To lodge all power in one party and keep it there is to insure bad government and the sure and gradual deterioration of the public morals. - Mark Twain

            by Windowdog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 12:29:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Understandalbe Mistakes Call for Courtesy - - (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              RickWn

              Baffling behavior calls for even more courtesy.

              An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth - will leave us all blind and toothless.

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