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View Diary: Sigh... Sierra Club still trying to justify Chafee endorsement (219 comments)

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  •  Beg Your Pardon? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RickWn, saccharin girl

    Armando -

    Please spare me the hypocitical, ridiculous stuff.
    I simply do not agree or see any potential in this approach. The only thing it does is further splinter the progressive movement.

    The Sierra Club is not likely to change its mind.  Sierra Club members have a higlevel of commitment to their organization.  If forced into an either/or situation - I believe that most would side with Sierra Club. So where does that get you?  A bunch of miffed people expending energy that could be better put to use elsewhere.  The Sierra Club has chosen to endorse Chaffee for its owns reasons - perhaps due to his voting record, perhaps due to political maneuvering.  It's their choice.  

    I'm not saying the Sierra Club is above criticism - but Chaffee is no Ted Stevens.  It a non-starter.

    •  Pardon me? (0+ / 0-)

      So you disagree with kos on this. As tactics? Not on the merits?

      Ok. I disagree with your disagreement.

      I find it ridiculous.

      "All knew that Armando was an Armory of Wisdom. But then, who are these with whom Armando crossed verbal swords?"

      by Armando on Mon May 01, 2006 at 11:11:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  When I agree with more than 40% of (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Armando, DelRPCV

        what Armando writes in any given thread you know the opposing side has just gone and lost it's mind.

        We should be nice to the Sierra Club and not call out their bullshit so that their members will visit DKos more often???? WTF?

        Of course the Sierra Club isn't going to back down now. They have so completely screwed the situation for themselves the only thing they can do is stand still and be pilloried by people with truth on their side.

        So that means we should just leave them alone? Why? They are effectively defrauding their members via their actions in this election. I think that warrants a little more than disapproving silence.

        To lodge all power in one party and keep it there is to insure bad government and the sure and gradual deterioration of the public morals. - Mark Twain

        by Windowdog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 11:28:28 AM PDT

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    •  And stop with the red herrings (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vtdem

      Linc Chafee is not running against Ted Stevens. He is running against Shedlon Whitehouse.

      "All knew that Armando was an Armory of Wisdom. But then, who are these with whom Armando crossed verbal swords?"

      by Armando on Mon May 01, 2006 at 11:12:55 AM PDT

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      •  Armando? (7+ / 0-)

        The Ted Stevens comment was about how the Sierra Club sees it.  One thing I have noticed about DKos is that many people have a heckuvatime trying to see how others might view things.  Yes, I would have rather seen an endorsement of Whitehouse or no endorsement at this point - but the Sierra Club chose to act otherwise.  And from the Sierra Club perspective - not a red herring perspective - Chaffee is very, very different than Stevens.  Their own bylaws require tham to be nonpartisan which, I'm sure, is very hard to do.  Chaffee is their best bet.  His record isn't perfect - better on legislation - worse on confirmations - but confirmations are part of the political ballgame and Chaffee is a Republican, after all.  Do I want to see Chaffee defeated?  You betcha - precisely because he cannot be depended upon on critical nominations.  But there are better ways to do it than going after the Sierra Club.

        Let it go - -

        •  Kos is trying to sell books, that's all. (5+ / 2-)

          Come on folks, this is a central theme of his book.  He is pushing that theme.  The reason should be clear to all... we don't need Drudge to tell us that sales haven't been that great.

          It should be clear to Kos that this kind of rabid infighting is totally pointless and counterproductive.  He is thinking from a Dem-view, not a Enviro-view: after all, consider that the GOP stands a good chance of maintaining their strangle hold on the country for the next decade or so.  Might it not be in the interest of the SC, therefore, to maintain and establish some ties with the GOP?

          •  Absolutely! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RickWn

            And can't folks at DKos see why Sierra Club might choose to do something - even if we might choose to do otherwise?  Disagree - then move on.

          •  long term v. short term (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Go Vegetarian

            Exactly.

            Markos cannot think beyond Nov 2006.  All he cares about is a Dem majority.  That is his holy grail.  He cares about nothing else.

            We environmentalists are in this for the long term.  We are playing a much more complicated game than Markos can even imagine, because, literally, the future of the planet depends on it.

            All the progressive politics, none of the sexist aftertaste: BooMan Tribune

            by DisputoErgoSum on Mon May 01, 2006 at 12:04:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  OH come off it. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              vtdem, DelRPCV

              Exactly what enviroment are you looking forward to "long term" if the Dems can't win back the house or the senate this year? Mining and drilling applications are being rubberstamped at a frenzied pace, illegal logging keeps being white washed, polluters are being held to near zero accountability, no one is even proposing new CAFE standards....

              But the "movement's" long term viability is more important than kicking the party run by the polluter out of power? What a bunch of self serving navel gazing.

              This was a stupid move flat out, and they need to be called on it just like anyone else.

              To lodge all power in one party and keep it there is to insure bad government and the sure and gradual deterioration of the public morals. - Mark Twain

              by Windowdog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 12:24:29 PM PDT

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          •  Selling books? (0+ / 0-)

            Huh?

            "All knew that Armando was an Armory of Wisdom. But then, who are these with whom Armando crossed verbal swords?"

            by Armando on Mon May 01, 2006 at 12:40:38 PM PDT

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        •  The Sierra Club perspective (0+ / 0-)

          seems to follow a red herring as TED STEVENS is NOT on the ballot in Rhode Island.

          Their e-mail is a lie is what you are saying.

          I agree.

          "All knew that Armando was an Armory of Wisdom. But then, who are these with whom Armando crossed verbal swords?"

          by Armando on Mon May 01, 2006 at 12:40:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Indeed! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vtdem, DelRPCV, JanL

      As you say, "Sierra Club members have a higlevel (sic) of commitment to their organization."

      Oh that they had a similarly high level of commitment to the environment.

      Were that the case, they would hold their noses and endorse Democrats rather than diving into the cesspool headfirst and endorsing Republicans. They would also note rather sharply neither party has done anything more than offer palliative care to a global environment that is in the midst of a series of systemic failures.

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