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View Diary: Do you own a gun? (poll/inspired by devilstower on Pombo) (141 comments)

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  •  and for those who don't... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    claude, zephron

    ... consider "Keep But Don't Bear."  

    What this is:  Buy a firearm or two, for example a rifle and a shotgun of types that use standard widely-available ammo.  Buy some ammo, a few boxes, enough for a decent hunting season.  Lock all of it up in a box, packed carefully, that you can store securely.  Put a label on the box that says "2nd Amendment."  And then basically forget about it.  

    If the unthinkable happens and the citizens have to "defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic," then you have something to contribute to someone who will know how to use it.  

    And if you think that talk about civil revolt is nuts, consider that half of the Army will be supporting the Constitution as well, and they will need all the civilian support they can get.  

    And if the unthinkable never happens, the worst you've done is wasted a few hundred bucks for what amounts to "unthinkable events insurance."   And then a few decades from now you can tell your grandkids about the scary times when the US almost slid into overt dictatorship but thankfully didn't.

    The Second (Amendment) protects the First and all the rest.

    •  Yeah, those firearms will do a whole lot of good (0+ / 0-)

      against stealth fighters with satellite-guided bombs.

      •  apparently you don't understand (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Land of Enchantment, zephron

        or haven't heard.  The following is pieced together from comments by active-duty soldiers, and you can see hints of it in soldiers' blogs if you know where to look and what to look for:

        If the unthinkable happens and e.g. some hypothetical tyrant attempts to suspend the Constitution:  The military will split about down the middle, half supporting the Regime, half supporting the Constitution against the Regime.  If the situation does not resolve peacefully, i.e. by the Regime stepping down, then we are at risk of open warfare.  

        Each half will have access to high tech weaponry.  Each half will also need to count on support from the civilian population.  Civilian support will consist of largely non-combat roles, but those roles will still be exposed to high risk.  Supply, transport, and logistics come to mind, as well as peacekeeping activities, intel collection, and so on.  Individuals acting in these capacities will still need to be armed.  

        The very existence of meaningful civilian support, including the capabilities to act when and if needed, will be an element of determining whether hostilities break out and how things proceed from that point.  

        If only the Regime-supporters are armed, guess how it turns out?  

        •  There is absolutely no evidence that will happen. (0+ / 0-)

          That is absolutely pure 100% speculation. If you want to convince me that I need to have a shotgun in case of revolution, I would like evidence, not speculative fiction.

          •  here's the tip of an iceberg for you (3+ / 0-)

            Go look up all the comments by various officers & enlisted about the implications of the part of the oath about "support and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic," in the context of whether a certain Regime can be considered a domestic enemy of the Constitution.

            I was clued about that one a few years ago and I thought it was a bit way-out and we'd never see the day when that kind of stuff was discussed openly.  

            But go look, there's more and more of that kind of talk going around each month.  This is not just a few dissidents or rebellious types.  This is a meme that is in serious circulation, far and wide throughout the ranks.  

            Let me spell it out terribly bluntly, what this means:  

            When you read something by someone in the military (active or retired) discussing the oath or obligation to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign & domestic, and when you read it in the context of whether a particular Regime can be considered a domestic enemy of the Constitution, what they are talking about is this:  Under what circumstances if any, would it be appropriate for members of the military to oppose a tyrannical regime with force?  

            And then, if you ask around, purely hypothetically:  What would happen if a land war occurred in the United States?, the scenarios you'll hear will also typically involve mobilization of civilian populations.  If you get more specific and ask what would happen if half of the military were neutralized or taken over by a hostile force, you'll hear much the same.  

            If you connect the dots, what you get looks a lot like my scenario above.  And yeah, I wish it was only speculative fiction.  I wish we didn't live in such "exciting times," as the ancient Chinese curse puts it.  

            The best way to prevent any of these nightmare scenarios from occurring, is to have such an overwhelming victory at the polls this year and in 2008 that there is no way to rig or "fix" the results.  That means make damn sure that every single person you know is registered to vote and is able to get to the polls, and is able to take legal steps in the event their right to vote is compromised in any way.  Then in the days leading up to the election, check in with them, all of them: do they have a way to get to the polls? do they have their voting information? is there anything they need?.  Offer them rides to the polls if needed, do whatever it takes to make sure each and every one of them gets in there and casts their ballot.  

            Then perhaps we can look back and laugh at how paranoid some of us got back in the bad old days.  I'd like that.  

          •  Yes, it's speculation. (0+ / 0-)

            But if everything went wrong, would you rather have a fighting chance with your family, to say "NO" and chase away a thug, or would you be one of the ones herded into a camp?

            As someone said about this sort of thing...

            "In twenty years, we might look back on all this and laugh...or we might be too busy reloading."

            "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross" - Sinclair Lewis

            by Loboguara on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:54:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Admiral Yamamoto said... (0+ / 0-)

          ...that to invade the US mainland would be impossible, because "there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass".

          He was talking about civilians.

          "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross" - Sinclair Lewis

          by Loboguara on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:52:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  That's not how tyranny and genocide works (0+ / 0-)

        Stealth fighters can only destroy specific targets.

        To put an entire people under a boot heel, or to commit genocide, takes going neighborhood to neighborhood, door to door, with gangs of violent armed thugs under the control of a dictator, subjugating and putting fear into people.

        And that only works if they can't fight back.

        "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross" - Sinclair Lewis

        by Loboguara on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:51:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  or didn't slide into dictatorship (0+ / 0-)

      because of them.  Don't forget the bullets.

      A legacy of death, lies and incompetence with the sign of the cross.

      by FreeTradeIsYourEpitaph on Tue May 02, 2006 at 04:15:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      G2geek, Land of Enchantment

      I'm glad to hear someone else talk about this.

      Also, don't forget that superior firepower doesn't always win.  You can just look at the various asymmetric conflicts simmering around the world today, Iraq being a rather obvious example.

      If reality doesn't cut it, remember that in the war games leading up to Iraq, the US lost and had to refloat the fleet!  Just an example of what a resourceful command can do.

    •  Well, you do need to know how to USE it. (0+ / 0-)

      A weapon of any sort in untrained hands is like saying that having a guitar in a closet means you can play a concert.

      You NEED to know how to use it.

      "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross" - Sinclair Lewis

      by Loboguara on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:58:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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