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View Diary: DOJ Is Denied Clearances, Drops NSA Probe (249 comments)

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  •  You mean (7+ / 0-)

    This is truly an opportunity for House Democrats to show what they're made of.

    Sugar and spice and all things nice?

    Sorry, in a bitter mood today.

    •  I hear ya (6+ / 0-)

      Some days (likethe last two since I have been in New Orleans) I feel this way. then other days I think, well, there seems to be hope. Other days I want to just hit the do-over button.  But somehow we'll all get thru. Hugs to you and I understand being bitter, trust me.

    •  I think you and Kagro X ... (11+ / 0-)

      need to go out and get seriously shitfaced drunk together.

      I'm trying to point a way to talking about this in terms that stays away from "Democrats are weak on national security." Trying to find a way to present this that will give them cover to push ahead hard on it.

      Probably hopeless, I know. But you fight with the minority party you have, not the one you wish you had.

      •  The frame Susan is that when the military (6+ / 0-)

        Gets to tell its civilian overseers to fuck off, a police state is here.

      •  Incompetence and corruption (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greenearth, SherriG

        Spying on Quakers, vegans and sending thousands of worthless leads to the FBI. Outsourcing spying--Rummy bragged about it. Why would anyone believe that these fools are running our intelligence agencies any more honestly or competently than they run anything else.

        I've found that selling the incompetence meme is easier here in Kool-Aid land than the corruption. They saw Katrina on Fox and it connected at a gut level. Corruption requires some thinking.

        They also understand that data-mining is an imperfect tool for catching bad guys when it is explained to them in terms of Googling.

      •  Susan (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greenearth

        I am sorry. I know what you are trying to do here, and it is the Lord's work. I apologize.

      •  That can't hurt. (0+ / 0-)

        Of course, all I'm trying to point out is that there's no way out save the one I'm talking about.

        Seriously, what's the mechanism for enforcing the subpoena and oversight power we're all so anxious to get? I'd like to get it too, of course. But what's the mechanism for enforcing it?

        They walk out of the oversight hearings that even Congressional Republicans think it's too crazy not to hold. They ignore the requests for information that even Republicans think it's too crazy not to go along with demanding.

        What makes us think the compliance will improve under a Democratic Congress?

        •  Oh, I'm with you (0+ / 0-)

          But there's really only one step at a time ...

          Take back Congress, then bring up impeachment charges and other investigations.

          Of course, what's the redress if Bush is impeached and documents aren't turned over during the investigation?

          •  That's a good question. (0+ / 0-)

            And it's the reason that if he's impeached, it'll be for encroaching on Congressional prerogatives, and not any of the rest of the garbage he's guilty of.

            Not only is that ultimately the only thing that would motivate Congress to act, but it's also the only "high crime" for which the withholding of evidence needed to convict can itself be the evidence needed to convict.

    •  I sympathize with your cynicism and even agree (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rolandzebub, greenearth

      with it. Nothing in your comment is off the mark in terms of being an honest assessment of how pathetic today's congressional Dems are.

      And I appreciate your bad mood today.

      But still (and you knew this was coming), I'm getting tired of so many people having nothing more substantial to add to these discussions than sarcastic asides about how pathetic Dems are and how hopeless the situation is. However true these observations and comments are (up to a certain point), they do nothing to actually help DO something about this sorry state of affairs, and really just help reinforce a collective feeling of hopelessness, bitterness and despair, which can only discourage people from trying to do something to improve the current situation.

      Sorry, I don't mean to single you out, and having read many of your comments I realize that this sentiment is far from what you believe in, and as you pointed out you're in a bad mood today. But there are plenty of people here whose sole "contribution" seems to be to made one sarcastic comment after another about how hopeless things are and how resistance is utterly futile. I'm sure that YOU don't believe this, but this sort of comment is in line with many comments that DO appear to believe this.

      We need to cut down on the "doom and gloom" stuff, and focus on what we can do to make things better, however hard that will be and however long it will take. That's what this site is all about, after all, and needs to continue to be about. I can understand the occasional comment along these lines--god knows we all think and feel this from time to time and need to vent it in the open--but let's not let this become too common a cry around here, or else we'll all get consumed with self-pity and defeatism. And BushCo are COUNTING on that to happen.

      Again, I don't mean to pick on you or this comment in particular, and I hope I haven't offended. But I think you know what I mean--I also hope.

      "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

      by kovie on Wed May 10, 2006 at 07:03:40 PM PDT

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      •  And not to pick on you, but... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greenearth, huskerly

        ...other than tell us not to complain, what exactly did you add to this discussion?

        So what is your suggestion? Complain about people on dKos instead of those in Congress?

        Walk the walk, kovie, walk the walk.

        "What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is the exact opposite." - Bertrand Russell

        by Mad Dog Rackham on Wed May 10, 2006 at 07:27:47 PM PDT

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        •  I think that calling for people to cut back on (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          greenearth

          their complaints and redirect their energies to actually coming up with and helping to implement solutions was a sufficient addition to the discussion all by itself. But if that's not enough for you, perhaps you'd do well to read my other comments here and elsewhere on what we can actually DO to fix things, and not just complain about them.

          So what have YOU done to contribute to the discussion here?

          Talk the talk, MDR, talk the talk.

          "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

          by kovie on Wed May 10, 2006 at 07:34:33 PM PDT

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          •  I really don't think... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            huskerly

            ...that the way to reduce whining is to whine about it.

            As I prefaced my comment, it wasn't to pick on you, as I really have no idea what you might have done/be doing. But when something like this first breaks, you have to expect a certain amount of venting. But someone always has to post a "why don't you all do something!" comment. This time it was you.

            A simple "for instance" in your comment would have completely redeemed it. As it was, I found it to accomplish less than the snarky venting in other comments. At least there we get some gallows humor to smile grimly about.

            "What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is the exact opposite." - Bertrand Russell

            by Mad Dog Rackham on Wed May 10, 2006 at 07:46:10 PM PDT

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            •  So it's settled (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              huskerly

              Both the whining, and the whining about the whining--and, I'd argue, the whining about the whining about the whining--and associated venting, have run their course, and we can all now resume our unmitigated dedication to the tasks at hand--once, of course, we've had all our meta discussions about what those are and how to achieve them, and of course all the resulting recursive whining and meta whining about it.

              Snarky enough fer ya?

              "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

              by kovie on Wed May 10, 2006 at 07:54:28 PM PDT

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              •  SNARK THIS (0+ / 0-)

                Last time I checked this was not the DNC, or even my local county committee.  It's a fucking message board.  It ain't a damn thing more.  Get real.

                •  You are a truly clueless newbie if not troll (0+ / 0-)

                  if you think that this is just another "fucking message board", and not "a damn thing more". Have you paid attention to the kinds of diaries posted here, and the people posting them? This is not just the world's biggest left-leaning water cooler whose sole purpose is to provide people with the means of sounding off and venting. It is a SERIOUS blog for SERIOUS people trying to achieve SERIOUS goals. If you don't get that, you get nothing about it.

                  Snarking and venting is definitely allowed here, and so is the occasional goofiness, and I wasn't saying that it wasn't. But there's a HUGE difference between people who do this ocassionally, but whose primary reasons for being here are far more serious--and whose posting history proves that and have therefore earned the right to do this--and people who come here JUST for snarking and venting.

                  Again, if you don't get that, then you don't belong here. I'm dead fucking serious.

                  "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

                  by kovie on Thu May 11, 2006 at 02:12:31 PM PDT

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                  •  Ooh...'dead fucking serious' eh? (0+ / 0-)

                    Newbie?  Troll?  Gosh, you must be CALLING ME NAMES?

                    So, now that you 'splained' it to me so good and all - I guess I have no 'fucking' choice except to 'GET IT' and get it from YOU.

                    I HAVE read the 'mission statement' for KOS, but I guess I missed the part about YOU being the 'brain police' around here.

                    Make no mistake about it (as if you give a shit) - I am a SERIOUS person, and I have SERIOUS goals.  But, even though you've apparently appointed yourself the final judge in these matters, I am reserving my own judgement about what a "SERIOUS blog" this is.  In any event, I will 'respect' the writers according to what I read.  As opposed to some political pecking order, or the 'tyranny' of the majority, etc.  

                    I do a lot of reading about politics and government, besides that which I enjoy here, and after nearly sixty years of life - I've finally learned to take myself (and you too) somewhat LESS seriously than when I was 20 or 30something.  Which is where I think we may have a difference of opinion, if not a difference of lifestyle.

                    In closing, I'd like you to know that as far as this web site being devoted to ideals of the Democratic Party - I would never have visited twice, if that were the 'price of admission.'  Fortunately (for me) the diaries which I enjoy and admire are particularly concerned with progressive or radical politics, and often are openly disparaging of the record of the Democrats.  Never mind the other party - whose name they say is derived from the river that runs through my state, and is at least as shallow and crooked.  

                    As a life-long demo who changed registration to independent this year - such is my point of view!  (Scuse me there, got carried away again thinking you give a shit about anybody's point of view that varies in the slightest from your own.)

                    p.s.  I'll bet you're some kind of big shot around here huh?  How's that working out for you?

      •  As you observe (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greenearth

        Comments like this from me are extremely rare. In fact, I'm always the one exhorting people to get off their duffs and do something. But maybe I do need to let off a good rant once in a while.

        •  As we all do (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DavidNYC

          I could have "picked on" one of the other comments here that expressed much the same sentiment that you did, but I thought that doing so with your comment, given your known positive history here, might make my point better.

          I.e. sometimes the exception proves the rule.

          I hesitated before hitting "Post", because my comment could easily have been taken the wrong way (and who knows, perhaps even deserved to), but I thought that you'd better appreciate it than others.

          We should all be able to vent and rant from time to time--it would be impossible to remain sane otherwise, and I'm personally mistrustful of people who never seem to get rattled--so long as it ultimately leads to action, rather than resignation.

          Meta thread over--dammit! ;-)

          "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

          by kovie on Wed May 10, 2006 at 09:17:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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