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View Diary: [UPDATED] CA-11/Pombo: Jerry McNerney responds to Jerome a Paris (154 comments)

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  •  I've heard that (3+ / 0-)
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    RunawayRose, sacrelicious, bebacker

    new designs have helped with the bird migration problems. Obviously siting will be a factor, also.

    Have heard that opponents of wind farms (people, say, who own oil and other interests), have inflated the risks to birds. (Jerome's diary contained some data on that. Way more birds die from hitting buildings, for instance.)

    I would personally think that there would be some sort of electronic device that could be hooked up to the towers that would demotivate the birds from flying there. Pulsing light... hawk screech, something. Seems to work in parking garages.

    It's the "anti-fear-propaganda" solution: positive news: HeroicStories, free

    by AllisonInSeattle on Sun May 14, 2006 at 07:17:37 PM PDT

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    •  Lung cancer (1+ / 0-)
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      Many more people get lung cancer from cigarettes than from asbestos.  Therefore no worries about asbestos?  Don't follow the logic.

      •  it is the logic of Amdahl's Law. (4+ / 0-)

        which, in general terms, says that optimizing a bottleneck that takes up 10% of your resources can't save you more than 10% of your costs.

        the logic is straightforward: if you're worried about birds, tackle the BIG threats to birds. if the potential threat to birds from windmills tops out at 10% of the current threat to birds from buildings, you might be better off trying to reduce the building deaths by 10% than trying to eliminate the windmill threat by having windmills.

        and in fact, the gazillions of dollars we've spent on asbestos abatement might quite possibly have been spent more effectively on other varieties of cancer prevention. or on prenatal care for uninsured mothers. it's all about cost-benefit.

        I am further of the opinion that the President must be impeached and removed from office!

        by UntimelyRippd on Sun May 14, 2006 at 08:41:12 PM PDT

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        •  Thank you (1+ / 0-)
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          Birds clonk themselves into my picture windows and office windows all the time. Sometimes at such a high rate of speed I'm sure they're dead. So far no... but some day....

          Leaving that aside: Yes, worry about things in an intelligent way, and solve the problems we can.

          I don't mind going back to a 1920's or 30s lifestyle, but baby, I need a little bit of electricity.

          It's the "anti-fear-propaganda" solution: positive news: HeroicStories, free

          by AllisonInSeattle on Mon May 15, 2006 at 12:41:02 AM PDT

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          •  actually, some have surely died. (0+ / 0-)

            after all, how many clonk themselves when you're not around to hear it? then the little carcasses get hauled off my cats or weasels or what have you.

            i've read about some things you can do to ameliorate the bird-death effects of picture windows -- i'm sure it's not hard to google the stuff up.

            and of course, if we got serious about controlling stray cats, that would make a huge difference. and if everyone who let their cats run loose put bells on them.

            funny thing about that -- in wisconsin, we had a minor dust-up last year when the anything-that-moves wing of the hunting lobby tried to open up hunting of feral cats. it created an odd, unholy alliance between some bird-lovers and dead-bird-makers (the last time the anything-that-moves crowd made themselves heard was when they pushed through a permit season on mourning doves -- the state symbol of peace).

            I am further of the opinion that the President must be impeached and removed from office!

            by UntimelyRippd on Mon May 15, 2006 at 07:03:05 AM PDT

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      •  certainly birds die from particulates (0+ / 0-)

        in air pollution, too.

        Everything is a trade off and has a 'price'. You, and the others are correct to bring up threats to avian life from windmills; there needs to be discussion of it.  

        However, an issue like this cannot be broken down into the two extremes.

        What at statistics from existing wind farms in EU? Do they have problems with high avian losses? Do they have workarounds? Isn't the already installed base of these units large enough to determine what problems might happen?

        This is where is responsible, intelligent conversation begins. It's what I'm not finding here {from either side}.

        "Rovus Vulgaris Americanus"
        Nasty, freshly-demoted
        -7.63, -9.

        by shpilk on Sun May 14, 2006 at 08:57:26 PM PDT

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