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View Diary: [UPDATED] CA-11/Pombo: Jerry McNerney responds to Jerome a Paris (154 comments)

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  •  straining at gnats and swallowing camels (1+ / 0-)
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    Cory Bantic

    The Altamont wind farms have been estimated to kill tens of thousands of raptors.  Terrible, right?  Get some perspective: housecats kill billions of birds, window glass kills millions more, and global warming will drive many birds extinct.  Take down the wind farms, and the extra fossil fuel you burn will kill more birds.

    Certainly wind farm engineers need to do what they can to avoid harm to birds, like putting in features that birds will avoid.  This also needs to be done with large windows, which birds just do not perceive as a barrier.

    •  it's cuz they're raptors (0+ / 0-)

      raptors are sight hunters

      the birds ain't looking out for spinning blades cuz their sight is focused on the ground

      so the solution would be to remove the wind farms from raptor habitats

      but that could be a faulty assumption

    •  Data Please (0+ / 0-)

      Do you have any data on how much greenhouse gas is saved by Altamont, how much that amount of gas would contribute to global warming, how many birds that would kill and what kinds of birds would die?  Please provide links or at least citations.

      This aggression will not stand, man.

      by kaleidescope on Sun May 14, 2006 at 11:06:36 PM PDT

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      •  I do not have the data (0+ / 0-)

        But you've set the burden of proof the wrong way.  Those who propose dismantling the wind farms and preventing the construction of more, to save birds, need to put up evidence that it will actually save birds.

    •  I Worked on the Altamont Windturbines (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Fiat Lux

      And the 'tens of thousands' of raptors is pure Bushite.  There are not 'tens of thousands' of raptors in the twenty square mile area of the windfarm.

      If it was a few dozen of all types of raptors a year, it was a bad year. And one of the problems was to stop raptors from nesting in the turbines, so the young raptors were habituated to them at birth.

      The new turbines were not nearly as deadly to raptors as the older fast-spinning turbines that nobody is building now. This is a matter of replacement of 30-year old equipment that has been delayed far too many times.

      There are still enough raptors in the Altamont to hold up the job Gaia gave them in the circle of life.

      This debate is like arguing over retrofitting pollution controls on cars with 150,000 miles on them. The turbines and old cars both need to be replaced.

      As far as I am concerned this is "false-flag environmentalism", like people who want to stop methane generation by eliminating bovine belching (as if the buffalo didn't belch). It just sidetracks the conversation and makes it something easy for the reicht wing to poke fun at.  

      Let's face it, folks, some birds are going to die as the result of human life on this planet. And some CO2 is necessary if plants are to survive. And a lot of birds and other things are going to die if the Central Vally of California re-becomes an inland sea.

      We should work on tweaking our economic system to fix the perverse incentives against our own economic survival.


      The CHICKEN-hawk Bushiter's Iraq War- 1268 Dead, about 25K Medivacs and 9000 Maimed... Fought the Bushiter Way... Wasting other people's money and lives.

      by RedMeatDem on Mon May 15, 2006 at 06:24:34 AM PDT

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