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View Diary: Shame on you, Paul Begala (210 comments)

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  •  You don't win elections... (11+ / 0-)

    ...by ignoring half the country. That's part of why Gore lost in 2000 and Kerry lost in 2004. Following that strategy, we will never win in the South or the Plains states. Worse, current swing states like Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Missouri, Iowa, and New Mexico will become increasingly Rethug leaning because enough people are dumb enough to buy into the kind of lies the Rethugs told South Dakotans to get them to vote Daschle out of office -- that it's better to be represented by a member of the majority party than by the leader of the minority party.

    No, Dean has the right idea. We have Democratic governors and/or senators in North Carolina, Tennessee, Arkansas, Arizona, Nevada, Kansas, Nebraska, North Dakota, and Louisiana. People in all those states clearly aren't completely averse to voting for Democrats. Additionally, Rethug scandals dominate politics in Ohio, Kentucky, and Texas. If we can make inroads in these states, we'll be in position to make additional gains in other states where any advances seem impossible today -- but only if we have already built the infrastructure to support a Democratic takeover.

    Thwarting the forces of conservatism since 1978. -7.63, -5.64

    by wiscmass on Tue May 16, 2006 at 02:43:22 PM PDT

    •  Gore Won in 2000 (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shpilk, Harkov311
      •  Not exactly (0+ / 0-)

        Yes, he won the popular vote, but he lost the electoral vote. Even the newspapers' recount in Florida suggested that he lost there, so there's not much sense in replaying the battles of six years ago. It's time to move on and make sure that whoever our candidate is in 2008 gets over 300 electoral votes -- leave no room for the Rethugs to cheat, lie, or steal the election.

        Thwarting the forces of conservatism since 1978. -7.63, -5.64

        by wiscmass on Tue May 16, 2006 at 03:05:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  OK - no one respond to this (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sj

          Except with a link to a new diary where you can fully air all the worms in the can.

          My apologies to students who took my U.S. Government class in the 90s: evidently the Constitution doesn't limit Presidential power after all. Who knew?

          by Major Danby on Tue May 16, 2006 at 03:08:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You can 'let it go', I've got other plans TYVM! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Timothy J

          'Even the newspapers' recount in Florida suggested that he lost there

          You don't say!

        •  Actually, Gore won Florida n/t (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NYFM

          "Control of the initiative is control of the battle. In the alley, at the poker table or in politics. One must raise." David Mamet

          by coral on Tue May 16, 2006 at 06:53:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No, he didn't (0+ / 0-)

            The official count -- the only one that really matters -- says he lost. The media's full recount says he lost by a smaller amount. Either way, he lost.

            That's not to say that there weren't criminal acts that prevented a large number of predominantly minority voters from casting their ballots -- voters who likely would have voted for Gore in high enough proportions to swing the election to him -- but those ballots were never cast, so it's a counterfactual model that can never be definitively confirmed or denied. The count is what it is, and no one has ever presented actual evidence based on the ballots that Gore really did win.

            That's it. Game over. Without real evidence, it's just another conspiracy theory. In any case, it's not productive. We can't just wish the last 5 1/2 years away; we ought to focus our efforts on limiting the damage Rethugs can do now, removing them from office, and replacing them with people who actually care about the American people.

            Thwarting the forces of conservatism since 1978. -7.63, -5.64

            by wiscmass on Tue May 16, 2006 at 07:19:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  No, Gore didn't 'win' (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sj, wu ming, Sherri in TX, wiscmass, arbiter

        Bush won.  Doubt me?  Check the White House.  Who is sitting in the Oval Office?

        Gore got most of the votes.  Gore maybe should have won the electoral college.  But he let the Repugs walk all over him in Florida, let them walk all over him in the Supreme Court, and let them walk all over him in Congress when members of the House tried to pass a resolution questioning the legitimacy of the election.

        Moreover, if Al Gore could have won Tennessee - HIS OWN HOME STATE! - Florida would not have mattered.  That's all he needed to do, and he didn't do it.  Had there been a Democratic presence in Tennessee - which there was not, nor has there been for years, for Tennessee is "too red" (makes you wonder how he got into the Senate in the first palce), he very well might have won.  In fact, I think he would have.

        Also, if there were a stronger Democratic presence in Florida, maybe Jeb wouldn't have been able to sign, seal, and deliver the election to his brother.

        The Democrats ignored the South, and it cost them the presidential elections in 2000 and 2004.  Pretending that everything is ok with the Party because Gore "won" in 2000 solves nothing - in fact, it only makes everything worse.

        •  Looky here GR (0+ / 0-)

          I agree with almost everything you say, except "saying Gore won" makes matters worse.

          I sit many nights with Begala's ilk, taking up the armpit over Dean and his 50-state strategy and his "lack" of fundraising, etc.  And I'm the only one at the table who worked in 80, 84, 88, 92, 98, 2000, 2004.  So if I want to say "Gore Won", I am entitled.

          BTW, Thanks Zach for writing the diary.

        •  Damn, finally... (0+ / 0-)

          I've been here for a year and this is the first post I've ever seen where the poster actually understood the reality of the situation; that it doesn't matter worth a damn what the final tally was - George is in the Oval Office and if we'd done even a slightly better job in 2000 he wouldn't have even been given the chance.

          Thank you, GrimReefa!

        •  In the interest of the truth.... (0+ / 0-)

          Moreover, if Al Gore could have won Tennessee - HIS OWN HOME STATE! - Florida would not have mattered.  That's all he needed to do, and he didn't do it.  Had there been a Democratic presence in Tennessee - which there was not, nor has there been for years, for Tennessee is "too red" (makes you wonder how he got into the Senate in the first palce), he very well might have won.  In fact, I think he would have.

          You might want to check your facts about Tennessee. In 1992, Democratic candidate for President Bill Clinton won the state of Tennessee. Likewise, in 1996, Clinton won Tennessee. It is entirely absurd and factually incorrect to say that there wasn't a Democratic presence in Tennessee and that it was "too red" for Gore's campaign.

          As for Florida, Clinton won in '92 and '96, as well. There was a Democratic presence there in 2000, too. Gore officially lost by less than 600 votes, although I would argue that we did, in fact, win there. We didn't lose Florida because we didn't have a strong enough presence there; the election was stolen by 5 Supreme Court Justices.

          •  Also, re: Tennessee... (0+ / 0-)

            ...I think the Democratic governor would have something to say about there being no Democratic presence there.

            But Gore did lose Florida. The media did their own statewide recount. Off the top of my head, I seem to recall them saying that Gore did lose Florida by something like 230 votes. And in any case, it doesn't do much good to moan about it now. Dumbya is in the White House, and he's not going to be removed because of improprieties in the 2000 election, and we can't undo the last 5 1/2 years. It's time to make elections more transparent (in part by destroying Diebold), remove all Rethugs from office, and get ourselves a government that actually represents our interests instead of the interests of a corporate thugocracy.

            Thwarting the forces of conservatism since 1978. -7.63, -5.64

            by wiscmass on Tue May 16, 2006 at 05:03:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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