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View Diary: The Good Fight: Peter Beinart Responds (221 comments)

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  •  is jihadism a threat to USA? (0+ / 0-)

    How is jihadism a treat to the United States?

    People who hate brown people scream about illegal immigration being a threat.

    In a strictly policy sense, it's highly questionable that illegal immigration is a priority problem.

    People who hate Muslisms scream about jihadism or "Islamo-fascism".

    In a strictly policy sense, how is jihadism a priority problem?

    If you are interested in the politics of Proviso Township in Cook County, Illinois, visit Proviso Probe.

    by Carl Nyberg on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 09:23:01 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  It is an intenal problem that the west (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Geekesque

      not just the US has to deal with in a constructive way. Ultimately they have to be dealt with in their respective communities. (I hope not threw civil war) Still zealots of any stripe are a threat to reason itself. We have our own home grown ones to worry about also.

      It is more a law enforcement and special ops problem. It is also a human rights problem and education problem.

      It is a somewhat minor threat that has some things to worry about. We are living in a world were smaller ad smaller groups of people can do greater and greater damage.

      Still I agree with you to a point but it does not mean that we do not need to address the issue along with many other issues. From a national security stand point energy issues are a bigger issue and they are tied to the environmental issues.

      •  wrong paradigm (0+ / 0-)

        You should see fundamentalist, xenophobic, misogynist, pro-war/violence trends in Islam as being part of fundamentalist, xenophobic, misogynist, pro-war/violence trends in all the world's religions.

        If the same impulses are taking over Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism and Islam, it's probably incorrect to characterize the problem as being an Islamic problem.

        So, what factors are pushing the buttons of Christians, Hindus, Muslims and Jews in the same way?

        If you are interested in the politics of Proviso Township in Cook County, Illinois, visit Proviso Probe.

        by Carl Nyberg on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 10:08:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree still you have to deal with perception (0+ / 0-)

          and reality. Have you read Sam Harris's the End of faith?
          http://www.samharris.org/

          I meant the use of Zealot in a broad way not just related to Islam. Still I see the madrases as a long term threat and the lack of a moderate movement inside Islam compared to other places along with autocratic rule as providing the greatest threat in the short term. (Energy security being an issue)

          Still I understand the point you are making and none of the issues related to foreign policy are simple, sound bite issues. I do think we need to set some kind of frame work or vision on how we are going to deal with the issues involved.

          •  Here's a soundbite for you (0+ / 0-)

            The U.S. obsession with radical Islam is significantly fueled by anti-Muslim prejudice.

            Until this anti-Muslim bias is acknowledged we aren't going to craft policy that makes sense.

            If you are interested in the politics of Proviso Township in Cook County, Illinois, visit Proviso Probe.

            by Carl Nyberg on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 10:37:22 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Ask the 3000 people who died in NYC. eom (0+ / 0-)
      •  How Bush administration of you (0+ / 0-)

        How many people died from Katrina?

        How about the Iraq War?

        What were the costs?

        Why the obsession with Muslim terrorists? And what are we trying to achieve? Do we seek perpetual conflict? Or do we seek to end the conflict?

        If you are interested in the politics of Proviso Township in Cook County, Illinois, visit Proviso Probe.

        by Carl Nyberg on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 10:12:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's not an either/or question. (0+ / 0-)

          Opposing the global spread of jihadism doesn't mean that I have to support the Iraq war, or oppose funding and planning for natural disasters.  

          And this is a global problem.  It affects people who want to live in rational, secular, free societies instead of theocratic asylums like Taliban-era Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.

        •  It's not an either/or question. (0+ / 0-)

          Opposing the global spread of jihadism doesn't mean that I have to support the Iraq war, or oppose funding and planning for natural disasters.  

          And this is a global problem.  It affects people who want to live in rational, secular, free societies instead of theocratic asylums like Taliban-era Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.

        •  It's not an either/or question. (0+ / 0-)

          Opposing the global spread of jihadism doesn't mean that I have to support the Iraq war, or oppose funding and planning for natural disasters.  

          And this is a global problem.  It affects people who want to live in rational, secular, free societies instead of theocratic asylums like Taliban-era Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.

          •  Apologize for the mass posting. (0+ / 0-)

            Should be more patient with server glitching.

          •  multiple religions have Islam's problem (0+ / 0-)

            The global problem cuts across religions if you haven't noticed.

            If you are interested in the politics of Proviso Township in Cook County, Illinois, visit Proviso Probe.

            by Carl Nyberg on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 10:26:59 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The Islamic world is having the biggest (0+ / 0-)

              struggle over modernity.  

              Modernity has essentially won in India, East Asia, Europe, and the Western hemisphere.

              It will win in the Middle East and the rest of the Islamic world, but that fight is going on as we speak.

              •  modernity causes anxiety everywhere (0+ / 0-)

                You need to question your assumptions and biases.

                The fight over modernity is ugly around the world. The bloodthirsty policies of the West (Christiandom) and Israel (Judaism) are different than radical Islam, but rooted in the same emotional place.

                People are turning to fucked-up religious interpretations as a reaction against modernity. This is true across religions.

                If you are interested in the politics of Proviso Township in Cook County, Illinois, visit Proviso Probe.

                by Carl Nyberg on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 10:41:02 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The struggle occurs everywhere. (0+ / 0-)

                  However, fundamentalism is much, much, much, much stronger in the Islamic world than it is in Israel or in the Christian or Hindu worlds.  

                  This is not to say that we don't have our own demons to stare down--but those demons arise from the dangers of modernity, not those elements of society opposing it.

                  •  why is Islam more fucked up? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Geekesque

                    Here's my take.

                    Islam isn't as fucked-up as its enemies portray it.

                    To the extent Islam is more fucked-up it's because the underlying human conditions are worse in the Islamic world.

                    What are the conditions people are living under in Islamic countries? Christian countries? Israel? India?

                    Economic and social conditions are worse in Islamic countries. But most of the fucked-up governments in the Islamic world got fucked-up due to meddling by the West.

                    If you are interested in the politics of Proviso Township in Cook County, Illinois, visit Proviso Probe.

                    by Carl Nyberg on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 08:26:43 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  I guess the question is what kind of (0+ / 0-)

          solutions do you think will work and how do you use that in a campaign for president? I mean as much as I wish we were more wonkish around here everything is ultimately somewhat political. I get tired of people using terms like Neocon in an incorrect  and broad way to describe anyone who is not a pacifist or disagrees with moral relativism.
          (Not that I am in agreement with Neo-cons view of foreign policy) I also understand that sometime you have a bad choice or a worse choice.  

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