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View Diary: Pissed in the 50th (240 comments)

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  •  The ramifications (18+ / 0-)

    Disregarding the entire First Amendment angle, which should kill this out of hand... Are you really prepared to say in public that we believe that the illiterate and the non-English speaking communities don't deserve to participate in public discourse?

    Without mass broadcast media to put forward one's statements, how else are people going to learn anything about what a candidate stands for? Not enough Americans are web-savvy enough or have sufficient, swift, and dependable internet access to rely on the Intarwebs as a political soapbox.

    Can't say I disagree with you on a sentimental level, as the ads get pretty bad towards the end of a campaign. But I suppose I've gotta be the killjoy if we are to claim we are the reality-based community. :)

    Anyway, I'm off to bed.

    I say Billings, do be careful with that missile!

    by Chairman Bob on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 04:16:33 AM PDT

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    •  Well ... (12+ / 0-)

      (Since I'm not TU anyway today, I'll be like a child who says, "You call me bad? I'll be bad!")

      While totally cognizant that literacy tests for voting are unconstitutional, particularly because of their use against Blacks in the South in the past, you raise a valid question: Can the illiterate, and particularly the non-English speaking individuals (the illiterate are not a fucking "community," okay? they're everywhere scattered among many communities, and without a separate culture or identity; the non-English speaking are many communities, again not unified), ahem, can these individuals, even with TV advertising, participate in the public discourse? What the fuck does a TV ad add? Can you name one political TV ad that, from your point of view, furthered the discourse of anyone, as compared to merely being a display of focus-grouped advertising skills unconnected to the reality of the candidates?

      I'm not saying cut all television advertising (although it would be wise to cut paid TV advertising and insist stations run the damn things for free as a condition of license). But pretending that TV ads are part of "discourse" ... are you serious? Maybe they should be, but it'll never happen in 30- and 60-second spots. If anything, they prevent discourse.

      •  Fox would just shill even more for Bush (7+ / 0-)

        Eliminating paid ads would backfire big time, our local Fox affiliate is essentially running free ads year round for the Repubs.  They slant all the news coverage, and provide fawning on-air "personalities" to interview any Repub who is running for office.  

        If they happen to interview the Dem  candidate for "balance", the interviewer follows the master Fox line and attacks the Democratic candidate.

        Pure sleaze won't be defeated with laws, it will take collective action from all of us.  Post signs and "Freeway Blogs" along the highways- take back our country!

        •  I'd like to see more televised debates (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SarahLee, oceanspray, Heiuan

          can we get "non-scripted" questions, too...

          I know it's asking a lot.

          "...and we'd call that science. And no one would believe it." (Colbert)

          by lookingglass on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 06:32:07 AM PDT

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          •  Much more common for local races, these (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            peraspera, lookingglass

            This is a small town (county seat of a rural county).  School board, county commissioner, magistrate judges:  All of these routinely have "candidates' forums", and there's two different local (commercial) radio stations that run them.  

            Air America just came in during the last year.  AAR programming gets pre-empted for these - which repeat several times.  (Also gets pre-empted for local HS basketball games.)

            Such things sometimes heard on a community radio station (with some NPR programming) that runs out of southern Colorado as well.

            The bigger the race, the less of that kind of thing you see.  Though Senator Bingaman spent a couple days up here last week, both on face meetings and on the radio.  I think he took calls for one of those (not sure, didn't hear it).  No one for him to debate with, since there's no primary challenge, and barely a general election challenge either.

            •  Most debates.... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              ... for national and statewide races are useless pre-scripted affairs.  The candidates spout their prepared talking points regardless of what they are asked.  There is no followup.  And nobody presses them on their bullshit and evasion.  

              Even many "candidate forums" at the local level are essentially worthless for the same reasons.  We, as a citizenry, do not value and demand informed rational discouse. We care about Hillary's pant suit, Al Gore's scowl, and GWB's awe shucks good buddy demeanor.  

              We watch American Idol.  We eat Cheetos.  And if anybody is so rude as to bring the sorry state of our polity, the worthless politicians we somehow ended up with are roundly criticized.  

              The grass is greener where it's watered.

              by decon on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 07:57:10 AM PDT

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          •  And a little something to jam the 'lumps' on (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            candidates backs?

            -6.88/-5.64 * You know what's happening. Fight it.

            by John West on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 07:34:59 AM PDT

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        •  Bring back the 'Fairness Doctrine'...n/t (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Woody, rockhound, lightfoot

          Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. - T. Roosevelt

          by ranger31 on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 09:53:20 AM PDT

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      •  Grammar (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Chairman Bob, cheeseismoldymilk

        particularly the non-English speaking individuals (the illiterate are not a fucking "community," okay? they're everywhere scattered among many communities, and without a separate culture or identity; the non-English speaking are many communities, again not unified)

        That's what he said:  "the illiterate and the non-English speaking communities..."  Grammatically in this sentence "illiterate" is not modifying "communities" (but rather is being used as a noun) and "communities" (plural) is referencing many non-English speaking groups.

        Just sticking up for the commenter, who appears to have gone to bed, and pointing out that the outrage appears unnecessary in this context.

        Carry on.  This grammar gnome is stepping off his soapbox.

        ...with liberty and justice for al[most everybody.

        by PeteyP on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 02:23:30 PM PDT

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    •  TV and radio could be still be used to deliver (9+ / 0-)

      the message.  Why does it need to be a costly, dumbed-down 30 second advertisement?  Why not require network time for debates, etc. as a community service?

    •  Late reply (0+ / 0-)

      but I hope you see it.  The reality-based preson in me tells me there is no First Ammendment issue.  I certainly don't have the right to just show up at my local TV station and take to the airwaves to rebut false charges against my candidates of choice.

      The courts may differ, I realize that, and if they have actually equated money with free speech then that's something we should try to change on a fundamental level.

      In any case, in the face of a ban, people would learn about the candidates by reading a newspaper (in whatever language they like), going to a campaign rally/speech/event, or actually talking to the candidate.  The internet helps, but is not strictly necessary.

      Allowing politicians and their shadowy supporters (i.e. PACs and lobbyists) to take potshots at other candidates without any accountability for misleading statements or outright swiftboating over the airwaves is not good for democracy.

      Hope you slept well :)

      A pessimist sees a glass half empty. I see a paper cup with holes punched in it.

      by Paper Cup on Tue Jun 06, 2006 at 02:10:15 PM PDT

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