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View Diary: The Progressive Answer to Illegal Immigration: DEVELOP MEXICO - Update: Begin w/90 "micro-regions"! (245 comments)

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  •  Think infrastructure (0+ / 0-)

    If they are using any public transit, roads, water and sewer, public safety, then they are consumers of services.  They don't consume as much as the average citizen does, but then they also don't earn as much.  Any taxes leveraged on their income should be proportional.

    •  And they pay (0+ / 0-)

      sales tax, gas tax, property tax, etc. Many pay SS and payroll taxes through fake IDs.

    •  Thanks for the reply...another sincere question (0+ / 0-)

      Also wondering, don't most lower income workers pay little to no income tax, even if they're not here illegally?

      •  Yes and no (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wa ma

        If they file a return they may get all their federal income tax back if they earn below a certain amount.

        But if any money was withheld, who got the benefit of the interest on the monies withheld until these monies were returned?

        It's a form of income tax, just not large -- but aggregated, it's substantial.

        And I won't even go into the issue of state or local income taxes, where low income folks may not get off lightly.

        The other hidden issue that noone discusses is the beneficiaries of the low cost labor; let's pick the millionaire living in the walled gardens of his development in Florida, for instance.  He has more than enough $$ to afford good help, but he'll weasel out by paying condo fees along with the rest of his fellow development members.  The condo development manager weasels out lower costs to maintain the properties paying cash or using contractors that hire illegals; the condo management pockets a nice profit, the condo members can spend the monies they didn't spend on maintenance on their luxury golf membership (some places have annual fees of $25K a year or much more).

        Cry me a river; what are these people NOT paying for?  It's right there.

        •  Thanks (0+ / 0-)

          An illegal immigrant is not likely to file an income tax return so wouldn't they potentially be paying more taxes toward infrastructure than a non-illegal immigrant in the same job.

          •  Fake SSN's and no returns (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wa ma

            Yup.  You've got that right.  Even legal immigrants at the low end of the spectrum get screwed, though.

            And the analogy of the walled garden resident?  Absolutely true; unfortunately know more than my share of these folks.

            Can you imagine owning a condo worth 6+ million, with contents valued at more than 3x that amount, and turning a blind-eye on illegal immigrants cutting the grass?  And this isn't but one of 6 residences this walled garden resident owns.  Ugh.  Utterly immoral.

    •  In terms of paying for these types (0+ / 0-)

      of infrastructure, it doesn't seem to me that they're "not paying" in a way that is different than myself.  When I ride a bus the driver doesn't let me on unless I pay the fare.  I'm assuming he wouldn't let an illegal immigrant on the bus unless he or she also paid.  I don't pay a direct fee to drive on the roads, unless they are a toll road and then I pay the toll just like I'm guessing an illegal immigrant does.  We have a well and a septic tank, but before we lived here, a water and sewer bill arrived every month in the mail.  I'm sure illegal immigrants pay that bill directly or through rent.  As far as public safety is concerned, I don't have to cut a check to the cops or firefighters when they show up at my door, illegal immigrants don't either.
      I know you weren't attacking illegal immigrants, so I hope it doesn't seem like I'm attacking back.  It's just I get frustrated that it seems we buy into this idea that illegal immigrants are such a drain on government and the economy.  I realize that the abundance of cheap labor has played a role in driving down wages, but the illegal immigrants themselves aren't running the system that's allowed that to happen.  I just get annoyed that the illegal immigrants have become so demonized and scapegoated (not saying you were doing that) as the cause of all our economic and social ills and we on the left don't do enough to say that is wrong.

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