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View Diary: Small Group of Republicans Hijack Renewal of the Voting Rights Act (156 comments)

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  •  The Confederacy lost (8+ / 0-)

    It's time they realized it.  People shouldn't burn the American flag; they should burn the Confederate flag.

    Clap louder! That'll help everything.

    by Viktor on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 08:26:39 PM PDT

    •  Considering that Ohio (5+ / 0-)

      is a Northern state, I might agree with the Republicans to the extent that we are singling out a region for no just cause.  (But the solution is to  increased vigilance everywhere to guard against abrogation of civil rights of minorities.)

      As someone who has roots both north and south of the mason Dixon line, racist bullshit isn't strictly a southern phenomenon.

      It is bad foreign policy to make enemies faster than you can kill them.

      by Paulie200 on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 08:38:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Bogus. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bree, skywriter, bic momma

        Disenfranchisement of Blacks was systematically carried out in the South as a reaction against Reconstruction.

        True, when white Southerners migrated to rural areas throughout the US, they brought white supremacist attitudes with them, and the GOP plays to those attitudes everywhere.

        But you can't ignore facts and history here.

        This is and always has been primarily a southern issue.

        •  Oh well in that case (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Paulie200, GATXER

          Disenfranchisement of Blacks was systematically carried out in the South as a reaction against Reconstruction.

          Yeah, by democrats. I guess we should put special restrictions on the democrat party or something? I mean, hey, in the past, we were a bunch of racist bastards!

          But you can't ignore facts and history here.

          Really? Do you hold Bryd having been a KKK grand monkey against him?

          Stop trying to live in the past and realize that people change, parties change, and regions change. There is zero evidence of voter discrimination in these areas above and beyond what we see nationally. Insisting that these places are somehow needing of voting fairness oversight while the rest of our crummy voting process is not is just absurd. And insulting to everyone who lives there.

          "Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth." -- JFK

          by Tryptophan on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 09:22:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  An easy solution (6+ / 0-)

            As someone else pointed out on the other VRA diary, there is an easy solution to the complaints by those states that feel they are being singled out. Simply extent the oversight to all 50 states. Problem solved.

            It's not a bug, it's a feature.

            •  extend VRA to all states? ---- a trojan horse (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              skywriter

              Since you cannot PROVE a history of black disenfranchhisement as clearly and easily in say, Ilinois, where I assure you it definitely DID and perhaps still does exist, extending the pre-clearance reequirement of the Voting Rights Act to states where there was no explicit legal disenfranchisement of African Americans leaves it transparently open to a court challenge.  And most of our federal judges nowadays came up through the Federalist Society.  It does not take much imagination to guess how they would rule.  

              Extending VRA pre-clearance to all fifty states is a poison pill, a trojan horse calculated to kill the whole thing.

              •  I respectfully disagree (4+ / 0-)

                It is very clear that minority voters in Ohio were disenfranchied in 2004. And an argument could be made for New Mexico, as well, from what I have read on this site. If one cares to look there are probably many, many other instances in other states (NH phone bank jamming, etc). INAL, but I don't see how any act guaranteeing the rights of all voters to vote would not be held up under any honest courts scrutiny. Now if you feel they are not being honest with the law then we should all just fold up our tent and go home, because that is what such an attitude suggests. I would rather fight, myself.

                The GOP strategy of voter supression is happening in all 50 states in the union, not just in the South anymore. And the best way to deal with it is to extend oversight to all 50 states. What happened 40+ years ago  was and is atrocious and has now been adapted and implemented in every other state in the union by the GOP. This is a good way to deal with it. I'm open to other ideas, if you have them.

                •  Forgot to mention.... (5+ / 0-)

                  FLORIDA!!!!! Who isn't covered under the VRA oversight rules, as I understand them. I could be wrong but if that's not reason enough to extend the oversight rules to all 50 states I don't know what is.

                  •  VRA should extend to more jurisdictions (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    wayward, Blue Southerner, jlb1972

                    I think the VRA should be applied to more jurisdictions. Currently it covers several mostly Southern state as well as specific jurisdictions within states.

                    Here's a Map of covered jurisdictions from the Department of Justice website.

                    Surely there's a case to be made that additional jurisdictions, given the elections over the last several years, now have a history of discrimination as well.

                    Also, as a Southerner, I must admit to being a bit offended. Not about the VRA, I agree it should continue to apply here. It's just that there's a certain attitude often directed towards us as if discrimination and racism were a uniquely Southern thing - its Not. This is a nationwide problem and I often feel like as country we're not acknowledging that fact.

                    •  This is a nationwide problem (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Paulie200

                      Damned straight. I'm a middle-aged white male Southerner, and the worst racism I've ever seen was in Boston and Chicago, where I was told it wasn't really racism, you see, just "a neighborhood thing." The Austrians have a saying that the best thing Austria ever did was to convince the world that Mozart was Austrian and Hitler was German.

              •  Then let their own... (0+ / 0-)

                crummy judges whittle it down til it just applies to the south once more. Still ok. They will still complain, but it will be more transparent when they're saying "John Roberts isn't forcing NY to follow the VRA. This is unfair, we should have to follow it either, who does JR think he is..." Sounds fine to me, let them argue that.

          •  Pecan Pie (0+ / 0-)

               *  1 9" pie pastry shell, baked
               * 3 egg yolks
               * 1 cup sour cream
               * 1 cup sugar
               * 4 tablespoons cornstarch
               * 1/4 teaspoon grated lemon peel
               * pinch salt
               * 3 egg whites
               * 1 cup brown sugar
               * 1 cup chopped pecans
               * 2 teaspoons vanilla

            PREPARATION:

            Combine in top of double boiler the egg yolks, sour cream, sugar, cornstarch, lemon peel, and the pinch of salt; cook over simmering water until thick enough to coat a spoon.

            Pour the mixture into the cooled pie shell.

            Beat the egg whites and a pinch of salt together until they begin to stiffen, then add the brown sugar and pecans gradually, beating all the time.

            Spread the pecan meringue over the custard, spreading all the way to the pie shell

            •  Would it surprise you to know... (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              pluffmud, Blue Southerner, jlb1972

              that blacks are proportionally better represented in Tennessee and Georgia (2.14 and 1.70 US Reps per million population) then in New York and New Jersey (1.32 and 0.9)?  Anecdotal? Maybe, but I challenge you to find a North vs. South pattern.

              Recipe' Yankee Clam Chowder:

              Find a Dozen Hard Shell Clams from Northern Waters.
              Try to get them to open up and look beyond their own little world inside thier shell.  (You owe it to them to try, but it's futile because they can't see anyway...)

              You know the rest...

              It is bad foreign policy to make enemies faster than you can kill them.

              by Paulie200 on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 12:43:46 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Interesting recipe (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Paulie200, white blitz

              I have never seen a custard/pecan merangue pie in my part of the south (GA, Bama). And believe me, I know pie. Usually you just see the Karo syrup variety. Looks tasty, can't wait to try it. I have a bunch of pecans in the deep freeze from last years harvest that will do the job nicely. Where is this recipe from? And I mean that in all sincerity. Very cool.

          •  I'm black. You're probably not. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Paulie200, jlb1972

            I worked in the elections dept of Cook County IL for seven years too.  Lived 50 years in the north, and the last 5 in the south.  The south still has the highest concentration of blacks, about half the total number.  Like Faulkner said, down here the past is not prologue.  It's not even past.

            Acknowledging this doesn't say the north is perfect.  Just different.  The VRA addresses that important historical ---- and present difference.

            •  Where in the South do you live? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Paulie200, SecondComing

              I'm just curious to know what part of the South you live in because where I live Faulkners depiction of the South is no longer alive, if it ever was.

              I'm poor, rural, white and wierd. And most, if not all, of my neighbors, black, white or otherwise, treat me with the same respect that I give them. We are all just trying to scrape out a living while still being free to enjoy the things we like to do. We fish together, share meals, gather during the holidays to help those less fortunate, and generally lend a hand where needed. I'd bet that many folks around the country would love to be in the situation that I'm in. I couldn't ask for a better community to live in.

              •  asdf (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Paulie200, SecondComing, jlb1972

                I do want to say that I hope I'm not coming off too aggro in my comments. I'm genuinely interested in what part of the South you are living in. It does matter when talking about the South, IMHO. Mostly because we are not all the same (duh), although some would like to paint us that way. Rural Georgia, for example, is VERY different from the Triangle in NC, which is very different from western NC, etc.

                Too many people are quick to judge the entire South based on the actions of a few Southerners. That is where I start to have a problem.

                •  Cobb County GA (2+ / 0-)

                  in the northern suburbs of Atlanta  ---- what used to be Newt Gingrich's old district, north of Marietta and a little east of Kennesaw, where a curious local ordinance requires every household to have a gun.  

                  As an aside, do you as a native southerner know the origins of southern white "gun culture" and the Second Amendment?  

                  Upper class whites in Virginia gobbled up all the best coastal and near coastal land in the 1600s.  Lower class whites were obliged to go upland and inland and steal some from the natives, so they needed those guns.  And after that phase, upper class whites in the south needed to recruit or require lower class ones to serve as armed patrollers of highways and byways in order to police the slave populations and be ready to suppress uprisings.  

                  That, and not some horseshyt about defending the homeland from foreign invaders, is why the Second Amendment exists.

                  •  Re: Cobb County (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    wayward

                    I'm not a fan of Cobb County or much of the North Atlanta exurbs outside of the perimeter. There is certainly more of a racist element there than in other parts of the state. I prefer South Atlanta myself, if I'm going to "town". Better food and nicer people, in my experience.

                    Interesting history of how the gun culture evolved. Everyone I know around here has guns to hunt. And that's it. And Democrats can reach out to these people by connecting hunting to environmental regulation. Hunters are responsible gun owners and understand the value of nature. They appreciate the difference of how a wild turkey tastes compared to a butterball. They value the ability of nature to provide food for their families. I think we can make inroads with these folks by talking about food and hunting and guns in a way that highlights how Republicans are poisoning our environment. We're lucky around here, you can actually eat fish from the creeks because they are not poisoned, yet. And believe me, I check the water quality charts from UGA every year. That is the part of southern culture that can fit into a "western dem" strategy.

                    BTW, I really enjoy your comments and perspective and look forward to reading more of them in the future.

                    •  thank you kindly (0+ / 0-)

                      I have been doing a weekly column and other duties at Black Commentator, which is on hiatus for a week, so I dropped in over here.  Might diary over the weekend.

                      You can find the book length exposition of the origin of white southern gun culture and much else about labor and class in colonial America in Edmund Wilson's American Slavery American Freedom: The Ordeal of Colonial Virginia.

                      I don't like Cobb County much either.  I just live here.  Don't ask.  Dems here are so chickenshyt that I had to ask the Dem candidate for state rep, when he showed up at my door, why his lawn signs didn't say "Democrat".  He mumbled some sorry and revealing stuff about how it wasn't advisable to tick people off by being all that partisan.  My neighbor who was tagging along with him nodded her head like this was real wisdom she was soaking up.

                      But as Atlanta's black mayor and black business class are bulldozing poor neighborhoods and public housing while borrowing public money to bribe developers to build upscale housing inside the perimeter --- that's what the whole BeltLine scam is --- south Cobb (and parts of south Fulton, Clayton and Douglassville) are filling up with blacks.  There are one or two black faces on the Cobb County commission now, and horrible fights over school redistricting that the local media simply refuse to cover.  Life in America, I guess.

          •  Most of the retards are now Republicans. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            libertyisliberal

            They changed parties, remember?

            Pumped and ready for "the rough and tumble competition of the memetic marketplace."

            by sagra on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 07:47:40 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

            Yeah, by democrats.

            The better answer is by conservatives. Parties change. If I were shipped back in time to 1960, I sure wouldn't be voting Democrat, I'd vote for Lincoln. It's concievable that in another 150 years, the Republicans could be the liberal party, and the Democrats could be the conservative party. I don't expect to be around then, but if I am, my party affiliation may well change.

            The liberal party of Lincoln is dead and gone. The old racists of the Democratic Party left, and were welcomed with open arms by the Republicans.

            It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.

            by A Citizen on Fri Jun 23, 2006 at 05:59:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Blue Southerner, jlb1972, GATXER

          it's just those suthern crackers.  The rest of the country is just fine.

          Talk about bogus.

          It is bad foreign policy to make enemies faster than you can kill them.

          by Paulie200 on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 09:50:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Then the natural solution... (0+ / 0-)

        would be to expand the VRA to cover every state. Fine by me, but don't fall for the bait and switch. "It is n't perfect, because it doesn't blah, therefore lets eliminate it entirely so we don't even have to pretend to be a democracy any more and I can serve my dark master openly."

        Non-sequitor, just a fancy way of saying "doesn't follow", as in "the conclusion doesn't follow from the premise."

    •  Grow up (0+ / 0-)

      I suppose we should all be voting republican as well then? I mean, while we're all stuck in the past and all and resolutely refusing to move on and move forward.

      "Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth." -- JFK

      by Tryptophan on Thu Jun 22, 2006 at 09:17:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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