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View Diary: Kos: The cover-up is worse than the crime. (259 comments)

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  •  Are you serious? (1+ / 0-)
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    Have you not read this thread?  Or the site itself?  You think the question is heartfelt.  Most posters here clearly disagree with you and have posted links to prove the question was indeed answered, and several times at that.

    There are two possibilities, rationalist.  One is your accusation that dissent is not tolerated here and we all are a bunch of blind folowers.  The other is that this poster is simply wrong, factually incorrect, and when that was pointed out she continued to assert her arguments, changing them as each were debunked.

    I believe the latter characterization is the case.  What is your proof of anything else?

    •  Proof? (1+ / 0-)
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      You can't handle the proof. I've been here, in various incarnations, since before there was a scoop version of dailykos. I watched Markos get seduced by his 15 seconds of fame and change his tune. I watched him facilitate this kind of culture of intolerance of internal dissent - the mockery of the final posts of those who leave, rather than trying to learn from their frustration; the calls that "if you don't like it here, leave"; the mirror-image language to the dittoheads on the Right, demonizing those who dare to question things or demand that we practice the standards we demand from others; the personal ad hominem, scorched-earth assaults on people who dare question Kos---several of which assaults have been launched, publicly and personally, by Markos himself, including this latest round; the ugly troll-rating campaigns to get people booted who have been here for years, because they dare ask questions.

      Don't give me your sanctimonious bullshit. It might fool some clueless journalist out there, but I've been here. I've seen what happens when someone who is praised to the moon one day is demonized the next, because they dared question Markos' behavior or decisions.

      Contrary to the strawman Markos has carefully planted, those of us on the inside asking questions do NOT say that he formally dictates behavior, or that he tells people what to think; nor do any of us equate his behavior and decisions as being representative of the whole of the community here.

      Rather, we simply ask that we hold Markos, and everyone else, to the same standards of accountability and transparency that we expect from everyone else.

      There is an awful lot of rhetoric here about grass-roots empowerment and separating commerce from politics and having transparency and avoiding even the appearance of conflicts of interest and handing over management of movements to the people. But, in practice, there is none of that here. We seem to only expect it from those we consider the "enemy", whether it is the Right or the DLC.

      Anyone who demands accountability or a share in power or decisionmaking here is told to leave and accused of giving comfort to the enemy. There is your proof.

      Just try posting a few diaries - in the most constructive and helpful language you can imagine - asking Markos to be accountable and transparent in his business and political dealings. Just try asking for him to share power with the community. See what response you get.

      It's easy to go with the flow and be popular, by never questioning anything. Dissent is valuable in a free society, and this is not a free society. Not by Markos' decree, but by cultural norms which he does nothing to combat and everything to encourage.

      Talk of "unity" becomes just a cover for conformity. It's all happened before in many well-intentioned reform movements. We get all excited about a Hugo Chavez, and turn a blind eye to his authoritarian excesses, as if we didn't learn the lesson with Castro - or as if our parents didn't learn the same lesson with the Soviets.

      Principle is nothing if it is not equally and consistently applied, to everyone including ourselves.

      When a call for principle is demonized, that is a sign of movement pathology.

      •  So in other words (0+ / 0-)

        you have no proof at all.  You are just having yourself a bitter rant.  Interesting, isn't it?  Your post is here for everyone to read.

        Seems to me your gripe is with Markos and I suggest you bring up your concerns with him.  None of this has anything to do with this diary.  You are just bloviating and throwing out ad hominem attacks with no proof behind them.

        I have nothing further to say to you.

        •  Same words, no listening (1+ / 0-)
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          I suggest you bring up your concerns with him.

          And, having done so, and not getting any more response than he gives anyone else who dares question him, there is no proof to give you, is there?

          What a clever tautology. Lack of response is no proof, attacks on critics is no proof, lack of accountability is no proof, lack of transparency is no proof, lack of support - nay, outright attack - on even the idea of discussing voluntary standards for political bloggers is not proof, personal swift-boating attacks on Zephyr Teachout and others are not proof - what, pray tell, could satisfy your demand for "proof"?

          Seems to me your gripe is with anyone who criticizes Markos and I suggest you are not interested in examining or researching any critiques yourself. None of your response has anything to do with this diary or my comments. You are just attempting to discredit the messenger in order to avoid addressing the message.

          I have plenty more to say to you, but your unwillingness to engage in dialog is telling.

      •  ^ As in banned troll returning? ^ (1+ / 0-)
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        You can't handle the proof. I've been here, in various incarnations, since before there was a scoop version of dailykos.

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