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View Diary: Gonzales Condemns SCOTUS Ruling (151 comments)

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  •  I Wonder (15+ / 0-)

    I just wonder how cocky these smarmy little bastards are going to be on January 20, 2009, at about 12:30 pm when they are no longer in power and war crimes trials are available to these despicable bastards.  As if it wasn't enough already, each time an Administration shill opens its mouth, it makes me more and more ashamed to be an American.

    "I think I may need a bathroom break. Is this possible?" - Love note from Dumbya to Condi

    by Curlew on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 02:53:20 PM PDT

    •  There is more .... (16+ / 0-)

      It is not enough to get him out of office.  It is not enough to get Democrats controlling 2 branches of government.  I was in college when Nixon left office.  It was shocking.  Yet, less than a decade later, the GOP was back.  (And they might have never LEFT if Ford hadn't pardoned Nixon.)

      We MUST hit them -- all of them -- Bush, Cheney, and ALL the cabal -- HARD.  I mean really hard.  None of this wimpy, "Well, he is out of office now -- the Dems are in -- what's the point?"

      The point is that they will be back -- and very soon, too -- IF nothing is done to shut them down for a century.  And by that, I do not mean Republicans per se.  When I was in college, I was not a GOPer, but they were not EVIL like they are today.

      We must ensure that they cannot get back for at least a century.

      •  And punishment is the only way (8+ / 0-)

        that we can keep all this crap from being usede as a precedent.  For example, we heard how the gvt under FDR had the ability to detain the japanese and therefore it was legal, if maybe not moral, to do some of the things this batch of criminals has done.  Unless we punish these criminals some future administration is going to be citing the Bush doctrines of torture, rendition (and how troubling are the antecedents of that for democrats?), pre-emptive war, domestic spying when some new manufactured threat to the nation occurs.  I see no other answer than trials, domestically if possible, at the Hague if necessary.

        The ex president of Mexico is feeling the heat, Pinochet has felt the heat, Tyrants should know that justice awaits.

        "I said, 'wait a minute, Chester, you know I'm a peaceful man.'" Robbie Robertson -8.13, -4.56

        by NearlyNormal on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 03:37:04 PM PDT

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        •  This is an important point (14+ / 0-)

          Unless we punish these criminals some future administration is going to be citing the Bush doctrines of torture, rendition (and how troubling are the antecedents of that for democrats?), pre-emptive war, domestic spying when some new manufactured threat to the nation occurs

          What I would add, is that it must be a fair, clean, just and democratic trail—not for the sake of revenge, rather for the future of democracy.

          In a time of universal deceit, the simple act of telling the truth is revolutionary--George Orwell

          by Circle on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 03:42:39 PM PDT

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        •  Punishment for illegal acts... of course (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rktect

          Hell, they would rot in jail if we could put them their for dirty tricks, inability to govern, and all of the other crap they are guilty of then they would be there for 5 generations!  Like the Catholic thing... what do they call that?  Oh yeah, purgatory!!!

        •  I respectfully disagree (0+ / 0-)

          SCOTUS has done a really cool thing here. Its looked at the conditions which have to be satisfied in order for a military commission to have jurisdiction over a charge of conspiricy.

          Not only wouldn't there be any way either national or international law could be satisfied as regards Hamdan being charged with conspiricy and tried by a military commission or tribunal, in fact the governments arguments favor the case Hamden makes.

          Beyond that it makes its argument in such a way as to make it clear that the Bush administration would be far easier to make a case against than Hamden.

          While its Congress that has the power to make the rules, it has no power to delegate that power to anyone else. What's more Congress has a legislative history just as the Judicial Branch has precedent.

          Going beyond that, as a nation of laws, the Congress has to conform its laws not just to its own legislative history, and to judicial precedent, but to international treaties and conventions and even to common law which goes back millenia.

          Live Free or Die (-8.88 -9.49) IMPEACH

          by rktect on Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 08:45:09 AM PDT

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      •  See my sig. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rktect

        History will not forgive us if we do not try and convict the neocoms for their crimes, every last one of them...

        by Jesterfox on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 03:43:58 PM PDT

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      •  I Agree (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RickWn, rktect

        I was working on my masters thesis research that glorious day in 1974 when "I Am Not A Crook" escaped out the back door.  And, yes, you are right. Its not enough to be glad they are gone.  They need the same treatment that they have given "liberals" from the frist day.

        "I think I may need a bathroom break. Is this possible?" - Love note from Dumbya to Condi

        by Curlew on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 04:06:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I agree with you 100% ---Long (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rktect, BlueInARedState, AllanTBG

        Furthermore, as members of a political party, we must bring the process of finding good candidates back to our local communities.  Secondly, we must do everything humanly possible to observe their character and their ability to think critically.  It's important that our elected representatives have what it takes in the way of brains! Aren’t you embarrassed when you see some of those people like Ted Stevens and John Warner running hearings?  They are so old and so out of touch with the world as it is.  

        I am old too.  I respect the process of aging and the attainment of wisdom, but most of the oldies who have been around forever need to go!  I won’t mention the Ds that I think should go (Lieberman and you know the others), but many of ours should also be replaced by a new crop of real leaders!   This process should take place as often as we deem it necessary.  Why in the hell would we let them live out their days in Congress? Let’s send them home to enjoy their lives and thank them for their service like we thank the members of the military. Agree?

        What is happening with the Wellstone Leadership training center?  Is it closed down?  If so, do we need to create another one?  Jimmy Carter would be  EXCELLENT ethics and Bill Clinton on leadership training.  And I have someone in NY who could develop a leadership curriculum based on emotional intelligence!  That is what we need to be sure our candidates and our leaders have... yep, they need emotional intelligence, ethics and big brains!  

        Is there somewhere to do a free survey?  I'd like to ask members of the Netroots how many (if any) of their elected representatives they would put back in office, assuming that they had another good candidate to replace them.  I bet less than 20% of us would vote to send our existing members back if we could replace them with fresh, new blood.

        There is only one person (perhaps as many as 3 if I had their voting records in front of me) I can think of in the entire state of Colorado right now who would get my vote again even if he/she had a great candidate running against him/her.  

        People, if we have to shove ethics and rules down their throats to make them do what's right, they should not be there in the first place.  People with character don't need us to tell them what's right. People with character know what's right and they do it.  Leaders lead.  They don’t sit in the back and fear that they can’t speak out because they might not get reelected!  That is BS!

        We must not EVER forget the nightmares the Bush administration put our country through. Like the Jews who never forget the Holocaust, we need to remember the Bushies in the same way.  We must not forget it because it could happen again unless WE THE PEOPLE do our jobs as citizens.  We put those crooks there.  We put the mediocre Dems there too, and we made them LEADERS!  Ugh...  Many of them aren't much better at character and leadership than their counterparts on the other side of the aisle.

        Let's discuss what our job is and how to do it.  I personally hope that one day soon these blogs will be much different.  We can communicate better in real time, and for those of us who aren't skilled writers, we can better make our voices heard if we can talk our way through a diary.  It's interesting to dream about the next generation of technology.

        Till then, let's keep the spirit up!

        •  Wellstone Action (0+ / 0-)

          You Ask ---

          "What is happening with the Wellstone Leadership training center?  Is it closed down?"

          They are very very busy.  Just Google "Wellstone Action" to find the list of "Camp Wellstone's" scheduled for this summer -- looks like about one and a half per week through September.  They are coming on Eleven Thousand Alumni trained and ready.  

          Looks very much like their emphasis is heavily into training student leaders on campuses to train others.  And they are around the country -- Minnesota yes, but Chicago, Houston, California. Looks like they are also publishing everything in Spanish, and doing Camp Wellstone for Latinos.  

          Big thing this year was the opening of the new Neighborhood House in St. Paul.  This was a nearly 1oo year old settlement house that has served virtually every wave of immigrants that have come to Minnesota in the last 100 years.  Anyhow, the Senate appropriated 9 million dollars for a new campus as a memorial to Paul and Sheila, and it finally opened this spring.  Neighborhood House is not partisian political -- but it offers citizenship classes, language classes, all sorts of counsel, law clinic, low income health programs, and all the other things you would expect of a Settlement House -- quilting classes, card clubs, book clubs, drama program, music of all sorts -- and summer camp for families and teens, sports -- it is all there, and now they have a functional and modern building.  

    •  Well, I'm quite proud to be an American. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RickWn, rktect, Desert Biologist
      I'm just terribly ashamed of our "leadership" in government.

      ...The Precinct 134 Blog: Focusing on local politics in Chandler, Arizona and the surrounding community.

      by George in AZ on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 03:21:05 PM PDT

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    •  I try not to judge people (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rktect

      but I can't help it with Gonzales...  he looks like such a nice little guy from TX who loves his kids and his wife.  However, there is some kind of evil thing lurking inside of him!  He is such a bastard, and I'm beginning to wonder if he has a brain. It sure doesn't seem like he has much in the way of a legal mind.

      Perhaps we can promise Bush a pardon if he'll just resign and go away after overseeing Dick's return to WY for health problems. What the hell is wrong with these guys?

    •  Careful what you wish for (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rktect

      We have to win the next election.

      As much as he appears otherwise, President McCain would be much, much worse than Bush (yes, that's possible.)

      "Some fight for law. Some fight for justice. Cecil...What will you fight for?" -KluYa, Final Fantasy IV

      by BlueEngineerInOhio on Sat Jul 01, 2006 at 07:57:35 PM PDT

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    •  What SCOTUS did here is subtle (0+ / 0-)

      The Congress makes the rules but its not just the present Congress, its the whole history of the legislation of the Congress that like judicial precedent makes the rules.

      Not only is the President not the decider, or the present Congress, or the present Supreme Court, or even We the People, its the common law of civilization whose legislative history and judicial precedent goes back milenia and whose range covers not just western nations but all those United Nations who engage in Diplomacy and agree to a certain meeting of the minds formalized in international treaties and conventions...

      Its a long and very detailed opinion that essentially puts Bush on notice that not only is his legal advice wrong, not only is he not the decider, but many of his actions make his administration liable to the very war crimes trials he wants to subject the prisoners at GITMO to.

      Live Free or Die (-8.88 -9.49) IMPEACH

      by rktect on Sun Jul 02, 2006 at 08:31:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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