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View Diary: Today, I CREATED a former dittohead. (183 comments)

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  •  Very impressive, (0+ / 0-)

    and I think it's for the best you didn't touch on abortion or gay rights.  Stick to economic issues, job security, energy, health care, education, that sort of thing.  It makes you seem like the rational one with all the common sense answers instead of a participant in an ideological battle.

    •  As I posted above, how do you deal (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hekebolos

      with those issues when the other party brings them up?  

      I immediately go into super self-righteous mode over those topics and like you say I agree they should be avoided.  But how does one respond when the other person wants to discuss them?

      America: Arsenal of Democracy

      by YukonJack on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 03:07:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Do you know what YOU think about them? (0+ / 0-)

        That's not a facetious question, rather it's the heart of any response any one of us should give on these issues.

        For me, I tend to approach it as a question of basic human decency.

        I'm not asking for any church to perform marriages they don't want to, for example. But there are 1138 federal protections married couples have.

        Why should my friends, who stood outside in the rain for four hours to have a brief ceremony a couple of years ago in San Francisco be less entitled to that thank Brittney Spears and Kevin Federline?

        I don't know that I've convinced anyone using this-but they understand I'm absolutely speaking from my core values.

        Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

        by boadicea on Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 06:18:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  here are my abortion and gay marriage (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        boadicea

        talking points:

        on gay marriage:

        Ok.  When a straight couple gets married, they can have a ceremony in whatever church, synagogue or mosque they want to have it in.  But at the end of the day, they still need to go down to the courthouse and get a marriage certificate that entitles them to the legal rights that married couples have.

        The only thing we're talking about here is allowing gay couples to be able to go down to that courthouse and do the same thing.  It has nothing to do with religion.  It has everything to do with the rights that the state allows.  I mean, Satanism is a right guaranteed by the first amendment, but that doesn't mean the church has to sanction it.  Not to mention, from the standpoint of promoting monogamy, we should be encouraging celibacy in the gay community, not discouraging it.

        On abortion:

        I have no problem with people who think abortion should be outlawed because life begins at conception.  The only thing I ask, then, is that the position be intellectually consistent in the following ways:

        1. Abortion providers, as well as the women who get abortions, should be subject to the death penalty.  After all, if you plot for a month in advnace to kill a 2-year-old child, you can bet you'll at least get life in prison.  There's no reason, then, that getting an abortion shouldn't be subject to a "conspiracy to commit murder" charge.
        1. There must be no exemptions for rape or incest.  Murder is murder, regardless of how the unborn child was created.
        1. All fertility clinics that create excess embryos must be outlawed.

        Now, if someone wishes to outlaw abortion because of their belief that life begins at conception, yes doesn't agree with all of these positions, they are being intellectually dishonest.

        Someone who wants to restrict abortion, but supports exemptions for rape or incest is clearly only intent on punishing women for getting pregnant, and cares nothing for the fetus.  If we're interested in policing morality, there are a lot of other things we should do as well in that case--like criminalizing divorce and adultery, just to name a few.  The only thing I ask for from people who want to outlaw abortion is a bit of intellectual consistency and moral clarity of purpose.

        There you go.  Gets 'em most times, especially the abortion one.  You can really make people go nuts with it.

        •  Thank you for this. (0+ / 0-)

          I think I'll print it and read it out loud several times for practice.

          Sometimes I have to calm down and remember that I'm trying to convert people to our line of thinking - as opposed to playing a round of 'let's shame the bigot'.

          America: Arsenal of Democracy

          by YukonJack on Tue Jul 18, 2006 at 01:57:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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