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View Diary: The Boy Scouts of the Third Reich in America (133 comments)

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  •  shoe fits... (1+ / 0-)
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    and you're older, yes? Maybe the Boy Scouts have changed from your day. Seems like it.

    The Boy Scouts may have some minor redeeming value. But their overall organization is one that promotes intolerance (to put it mildly). I am sure you can teach a boy anything they learn in scouts some other way. I wouldn't let my son join them now unless I was a gay-hating Republican.

    Whackos get their info thru the Christian right. We'll bring them out to vote against something and make sure the public lets the whole thing slip past them.

    by chemsmith on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 10:31:18 AM PDT

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    •  Please name (1+ / 0-)
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      another organization that (1) provides community service (ranging from rebuilding parks after hurricanes to organizing blood and food drives), (2) teaches skills ranging from accounting to outdoorsmanship, (3) provides leadership opportunities to teens, and (4) is nationally and internationally recogonized for the benefits it provides to its members.  It's too important to let the bigots have.

      And as a point of reference I was active in scouts from about '86 until '97.  So my point of view is fairly recent.

      •  I've lived in many towns in the US (0+ / 0-)

        from Iowa to Georgia to California to Indiana.

        Never saw the BS do anything useful. Mebbe they did. I dunno.

        Anyhoo, I didn't say another organization, I just said that I'm sure the skills could be learned in other ways, via other types of camps, schools, etc.

        Look...I'm taking a hard line, I admit. But taking a 'soft line' won't get us anywhere. I'm tired of Dems/Liberals being so weak on everything. It's why we're going nowhere. The only reason we may pick up a few congresscritters in '06 is b/c Bush is so awful, not b/c Dems are offering anything or taking a stand.

        Whackos get their info thru the Christian right. We'll bring them out to vote against something and make sure the public lets the whole thing slip past them.

        by chemsmith on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 10:42:40 AM PDT

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        •  I appreciate the hardline (2+ / 0-)
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          House, DonMahoney

          I just think that the hardline should be taken from within.  The wingnut branch of the republicans built their power by taking over the local organizations in order to refocus the national organization. Dean is advocating a similar policy for the Democrats with his 50 state strategy.  Liberal scouts must do the same.

          I get frustrated with the write off of scouting as not worth saving because some people think that it is merely a quasi-fascist boot camp for the wingnuts.  At some levels it can be.  And if the wingnuts have their way, that's all it will be.  But that's not what it was to me and many like me.  Take the hardline that the organization must renounce its bigotry but take it from within where your voice can be heard.

      •  My goodness, (0+ / 0-)

        (1)-(4) could all be said for the Komsomol.

    •  What adamsrb said, and... (4+ / 0-)
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      sberel, House, adamsrb, markt

      ...I'm a leader in both GSUSA and BSA at present.
      On one hand, we've got adults who purposely run-together "One NationUnderGod" without the customary pause, during the Pledge. On the other hand, we've got me reminding them and the boys that "Under God" was not in the original Pledge (and the original Flag Salute during the Pledge was right hand extended palm up!!). If they praise Eisenhower for presiding over insertion of "Under God", I am there to quote from his Military-Industrial Complex speech.

      On one hand, we do have homophobic adult leaders. OTOH, our troop, chartered by a Catholic church, has to get every registered adult who deals with the kids, to take the CC's youth protection training. That training is reality-based enough to state, Clearly, that most sexual predators of young males are NOT homosexuals but hetero. I remind our 'phobes of that and leave 'em sputtering - I intend to use that datum to undercut what has to be the only admittable justification for the ban on gays in adult positions. The policy is not protecting the youth...

      On the one hand, there are reactionary adults there like anywhere. OTOH, I have had talks with the boys where we discuss popular song lyrics their parents would blanch at - I'm talking Green Day and SOAD here - and leading them to discover the positive lessons therein ('American Idiot' warns against the "subliminal mind***k America" and you can tie that to the BSA oath to keep "mentally awake").

      The youth are not dummies and never were. They can tell what's BS as long as there's an alternative viewpoint heard. If I gave up and sold-out of it, there goes my chance to be heard.

      Oh, and the outdoor activities definitely bring out the best in my son.

    •  The shoe does NOT fit, sir. (2+ / 0-)
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      markt, DonMahoney

      Comparisons to the KKK are wholly inappropriate.  The KKK is the American Taliban.  The Boy Scouts are not even close, especially, as I say, at the local level.

      This blog needs more cowbell!

      by Bill in Portland Maine on Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 11:31:19 AM PDT

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