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View Diary: When is the USA going to invade Israel? (69 comments)

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  •  ok... (0+ / 0-)

    You want links to propaganda and faults.  

    Unprovoked Hezbollah crossed the boarder into Israel and took 2 soldiers hostage.  They were on a defensive patrol on their side of the boarder.  Every nation has the right to patrol their boarder.
    Link: Yahoo

    And, with the help of Iran, they launch rockets randomly into Israeli towns.
    90 wounded
    The difference here being that Israel attempts to limit civilian casualties while these ungided rockets are so inaccurate that they are essentially just a terror weapon similar to the V1 and V2 rockets used by Natzi Germany against Engaland in WWII.  They can only be targeted at ENTIRE cities.  How can you even deny that the aim of this is to cause civilian casualties?

    Even most of the Arab World has had enough of Hezbollah. Arab world fed up with Hezbollah

    Some (Iran/Syria) don't want a peace deal.
    Link:
    Mediation effort sabotaged

    You link to aljazeera as a source... well they have been arrested 3 times supposedly helping Hezbollah adjust rocket fire...
    Police detain Al Jazeera crew members for third time

    The middle east terrorist are great at staging news.  Provoking Israel and using the media to get people outraged.
    Try this: fake funeral in Jenin
    or this: Is it Pallywood?: Thoughts on the Footage from the Gaza Beach

    The problem I have is how much is Israel supposed to take before striking back?  According to some on DK they must just 'take it' in the name of peace.  I am just fed up with the attitude that if "Israel only gave them what they wanted there would be no terrorism or violence".  That is like saying if the banks just gave criminals all their money there would be no bank robberies.

    "War never solved anything except slavery, communism, naziism and fascism."

    by Captain Infidel on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 02:06:21 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Re:' want links to propaganda and faults. ' (0+ / 0-)

      How have you determined which is propaganda and which is a real "fault"?

      The AP, Jeruselem Post, Haaretz.com are not really my idea of reliable sources. I am not familiar enough with them to know whether theys are hard conservative / orthadox zionist- no frigging idea.

      Can you cite BBC or something mainstream European. What can we even agree to as a mainstream source concerning Israel?  

      Remember those in prison as though you were there with them. -7.88,-9.49

      by Kujo AAR on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:49:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  How's this for sources? (0+ / 0-)

      http://informationclearinghouse.info...
      or
      http://www.mediaed.org/...

      Summary: Video

      Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land provides a striking comparison of U.S. and international media coverage of the crisis in the Middle East, zeroing in on how structural distortions in U.S. coverage have reinforced false perceptions of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This pivotal documentary exposes how the foreign policy interests of American political elites--oil, and a need to have a secure military base in the region, among others--work in combination with Israeli public relations strategies to exercise a powerful influence over how news from the region is reported.

      Through the voices of scholars, media critics, peace activists, religious figures, and Middle East experts, Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land carefully analyzes and explains how--through the use of language, framing and context--the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza remains hidden in the news media, and Israeli colonization of the occupied terrorities appears to be a defensive move rather than an offensive one. The documentary also explores the ways that U.S. journalists, for reasons ranging from intimidation to a lack of thorough investigation, have become complicit in carrying out Israel's PR campaign. At its core, the documentary raises questions about the ethics and role of journalism, and the relationship between media and politics.

      Interviewees include Seth Ackerman, Mjr. Stav Adivi, Rabbi Arik Ascherman, Hanan Ashrawi, Noam Chomsky, Robert Fisk, Neve Gordon, Toufic Haddad, Sam Husseini, Hussein Ibish, Robert Jensen, Rabbi Michael Lerner, Karen Pfeifer, Alisa Solomon, and Gila Svirsky.

      DVD Features:
      >>2-Disc Set w/ 8 hrs. additional footage!
      >>Arabic, English, French, Hebrew & Spanish subtitles
      >>Independent activist video shorts & trailers
      >>Bonus interviews
      >>Maps & additional news clips
      >>Over 400 compiled websites & online resources

      SECTIONS: Intro | American Media: Occupied Territory | Hidden Occupation | Invisible Colonization | Violence in a Vacuum | Defining Who Is Newsworthy | Myth of U.S. Neutrality | Myth of the Generous Offer | Marginalized Voices | Is Peace Possible?

      Logistical Information:

      Co-Directors: Bathsheba Ratzkoff & Sut Jhally
      Producer: Bathsheba Ratzkoff
      Executive Producer: Sut Jhally
      Editors: Kenyon King & Bathsheba Ratzkoff

      Biographical Summary:

      Seth Ackerman Media Analyst and Contributing Writer, Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR)
      Mjr. Stav Adivi, IDF (Reserves) Courage to Refuse | Board Member, Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions, Israel
      Rabbi Arik Ascherman Executive Director, Rabbis for Human Rights
      Hanan Ashrawi Founder & Secretary General, The Palestinian Initiative for the Promotion of Global Dialogue and Democracy (MIFTAH), Palestine
      Noam ChomskyProfessor of Linguistics, MIT | Author, Hegemony of Survival
      Robert Fisk Journalist, The Independent, UK
      Neve Gordon Ta'ayush: Jewish-Arab Partnership | Professor of Political Science, Ben Gurion University, Israel
      Toufic Haddad Co-editor, Between the Lines, West Bank
      Sam Husseini Communications Director, Institute for Public Accuracy
      Hussein Ibish Communications Director, American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee
      Robert Jensen Professor of Journalism, University of Texas-Austin | Board of Directors, Third Coast Activist
      Rabbi Michael Lerner Founder & Executive Director, Tikkun Magazine
      Karen Pfeifer Professor or Economics, Smith College | Contributing Editor, Middle East Research and Information Project (MERIP)
      Alisa Solomon Journalist, The Village Voice
      Gila Svirsky Co-founder, Women in Black | Coalition of Women for Peace, Israel

      Remember those in prison as though you were there with them. -7.88,-9.49

      by Kujo AAR on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 05:49:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ah, Noam Chomsky certainly is credible. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corporatewhore

        And Robert Fisk too!  You dismiss the AP and laud these clowns as legitimate, unbiased sources.  Hilarious.

        But the facts in this current situation are not in dispute.  Hizbollah, unprovoked, invaded Israel, killed and kidnapped it's citizens.  It is also fact that Hizbollah stated goals are the destruction of Israel:

        "In a scathing speech to a rally of more than 1,000 supporters, Hizbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah said peace deals between Arabs and Israel would not bring stability to the Middle East or legitimacy to the Jewish state.

        "There is no solution to the conflict in this region except with the disappearance of Israel," he told the crowd. "Peace settlements will not change reality, which is that Israel is the enemy and that it will never be a neighbor or a nation. "

        These two facts in and of themselves should give Israel the right to do what it must.  I personally, wouldn't bat an eye if they flattened all of South Lebanon.  There is no tolerance for people who want to see you wiped off the face of the planet.

        And please, keep posting!  Your incoherence is further ammunition for the Dems demise.

        •  Facts? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          out of left field

          "Hizbollah, unprovoked, invaded Israel, killed and kidnapped it's citizens."

          I have yet to see any evidence as to just where this so-called 'kidnapping' took place, but have seen differing accounts.  Since Israel was already moving towards attacking hizbollah before their soldiers were captured, I am suspicuous of how it all unfolded so neatly for Israel - by way of deception and all.

          Please provide a reference to ANY source that does more than repeat someone else's words.  I want pictures, I want maps, I want satallite images. You may be willing to take Israel's word on faith - I am not.

          And unprovoked?  Did you not notice that Israel had been attacking Gaza beforehand?  Where you unaware of the 1000s of arab prisoners Israel holds?  Any clue how many of them were 'kidnapped'?  One of Hizbollah's reasons for being is to defend Arabs against Israeli aggression - and as we all know, they certainly have a right to defend themselves.  Or is it only Israel that has that right?

          I believe that you have accepted too easily the words that you have been told.  Something you will likely regret.

          •  Your clearly (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Captain Infidel, corporatewhore

            an idiot.  

            No one, except you apparently, disputes that Hizbollah attacked and kidnapped Israeli military forces.  But, if I'm reading your drivel correctly, it was all a 'convenient' set up so Israel could go on the war path.  Whatever.

            FYI, Gaza was attacked for the exact same reasons.  Unprovoked aggression.  Everyone has the right to defend themselves. In fact, everyone has the right to be an aggressor as well.  All depends how you spin it.  End of the day though, you have to live with the consequences.  If Hizbollah and Hamas want to claim that launching missiles into Israel on a daily basis or walking into a pizza joint and blowing yourself up are for the 'Palestinians', so be it.  But be prepared to get your asses handed to you.

            Bottom line is, when a political/religious entity calls for your complete destruction, that's all the reason you need to attack them.

            •  Another Israeli apologist (0+ / 0-)

              Unprovoked aggression?

              It is a shame that you have so little idea what you are talking about.  I suppose that is why you have allowed yourself to be taken for a fool in all this.

              Less than 2 days before the 'outrage' of Hamas kidnapping an IDF soldier, the IDF went into Gaza and kidnapped 2 Palestinians.  It is OK for Israel, but an act of war for anyone else?

              Israel responded to this 'outrage' by attacking Gaza - to which Hezbollah struck back at Israel.  Should the Arab world not be able to defend itself against Israel?  

              Since the heart of the matter is still land, land that Israel took and is unwilling to give back, I would suggest that if Israel really wants peace - they should consider going back to the pre-67 borders.  Until then, it is all the same old BS and spin used to hide the fact that they are in gross violation of international law and UN resolutions.

              Perhaps they shouldn't have dismissed outright Hamas' overtures of diplomacy?  Maybe responding with attacks, kidnappings, broken promises, smear campaigns and the usual bullying tactics was only meant to generate the excuse they needed to re-invade.  Sure seems to have worked out that way.

              Who shelled the Gaza beach again? Who lacked the integrity to admit it?

              It was Israel, after all, that provoked and launched the war in '67 - in order to grab land.  They like to have their little minions go out and keep pretending this is a religious war, but it is really just about land.

              And FYI - I appreciate how you have picked up Israel's habit of accusing others of things that you are actually guilty of yourself.

              •  Ceace fire will not bring peace (0+ / 0-)

                When one groups charter is the destruction of the other, it is hard to negotiate.  The only thing that will end this conflict is victory by one side or the other.  Hezbollah did the equivalent of walking up and punching the bouncer in a club... then crying when they get beat up and thrown out.    I don't buy that "Hezbollah was protecting the Palestinians" bit either.  Why is the most of the Arab world (Saudi/Egypt/Jordan) all speaking out against them?  The palestinians are being used by forces (Iran/Syria mostly) in the region who want to use the Israel-Palestinian conflict as a 'wedge-issue' between the Islamic world and the West.  They don't want peace and they certainly don't care about the Palestinian people.  In the end the Palestinian people  and the average Israeli are the biggest losers in this 'power stuggle'.

                "War never solved anything except slavery, communism, naziism and fascism."

                by Captain Infidel on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 12:56:48 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  and for what it is worth (0+ / 0-)

              I have seen mentioned several times that the IDF soldiers were captured near Aïta Al Chaab - which is in Lebanon.  I have only seen this is media outlets that are not as prone to simply repeating whatever Israel claims, but are also more susceptible to opposing propaganda.  Therefore, I do not want to simply accept this at face value, but the only thing we have to prove it took place in Israel are Israeli press releases.  Since Israel has a long history of telling lies to achieve its goals, it strikes me as naive to simply take their word for it.  Clearly most mainstream media seems willing to do so, but that is little surprise.

              All I want is to see some tangible proof, but I guess wanting proof makes me an idiot in your eyes. Blind faith is enough for some I guess.

              •  Faith is defined as (0+ / 0-)

                "Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.".  Using that definition, then yes, I have faith that Israel tells the truth, at least I have faith they are far more trustworthy than either Hamas or Hizbollah.  

                But again, and I don't know why you ignore this, Hizbollah has claimed itself that it attacked Israeli forces and did it's dirty deed.  Since Hizbollah sees Israel as illegitimate, then of course there is no aggression, simply ejecting the invader.  An ideology which you are simply parroting, so just come out and say it instead of hiding behind all this 'I don't believe Israel' bullshit.

                The fact that you are also repeating the trope of the Israeli shell on the beach simply exposes you as beyond reason.  Human Rights Watch, which investigated the shelling, 'cannot contradict' the IDF's finding's in the matter.  Given the record of idiot Muslims blowing up their own people, either by design or accident, I would place the blame on Hamas.  But it's easier to simply bleat 'I don't believe Israel'.  Fine.

                And as for history, it depends how far you want to go back and who gets the blame.  History didn't start in 1967.  Jews predate Arabs and certainly Muslims in Jerusalem.  Shall we go back that far?

                Both Hamas and Hizbollah believe in Israel's destruction.  Both organizations have separate political and military entities, neither of which are responsible or answerable to each other.  And both organizations have explicitly broken 'hudnas' to suit their purposes in their primary cause, destroying Israel.  They are thugs in both thought and deed.

                Israel on the other hand is a pluralistic democracy, with a 20% Arab population.  It's political class rules the military and it society and economy thrives in a sea of ignorant and stupid Arabs.  This isn't a land issue, but an ideological one.  Israel  could pull back to it's 67 borders tomorrow and in the long run, it wouldn't make a difference.  Look around.  The Muslim world, and particularly the Arab world has bloody borders.  All of it, driven by ideology, not land.

                But believe what you will.  But you may want to pull your head out of the sand occasionally(scary, I know!)

                •  foolish lad (0+ / 0-)

                  If you simply believe out of hand that Israel always tells the truth, you are a fool.  A fool blinded by a faith that is not justififed by facts nor history.

                  Israel was responsible for shelling the beach. Only a fool blinded by a misguided faith would twist what HRW said to make it sound like they found Israel innocent. Instead of clipping deceitful little quotes - why don't you read their report:

                  http://hrw.org/...

                  Are you just aother Israeli apologist telling lies?
                  Lets see what Human Rights Watch actually said...

                  "An investigation that refuses to look at contradictory evidence can hardly be considered credible," said Marc Garlasco, senior military analyst at Human Rights Watch. "The IDF's partisan approach highlights the need for an independent, international investigation."

                  "However, evidence collected by Human Rights Watch researchers and many independent journalists on the ground in Gaza indicates that the civilians were killed within the time period of the shelling. That evidence includes computerized hospital records that show children injured at the beach were treated by 5:12 p.m., and hand-written hospital records that show they were admitted at 5:05 p.m. In light of the 20-minute round trip drive between the hospital and the beach, this evidence suggests that the blast that caused the family's death occurred during the time of the IDF shelling."

                  "If the Israeli allegations of tampered evidence are to be believed, many Palestinians would have to have engaged in a massive and immediate conspiracy to falsify the data," said Garlasco. "The conspirators "witnesses, victims, medical personnel and bomb disposal staff "would have had to falsify their testimony, amend digital and hand-written records, and dip shrapnel into a victim's blood. It beggars belief that such a huge conspiracy could be orchestrated so quickly."

                  Does this sound like a report that cleared Israel of responsibility?  No - it doesn't, but I suspect you knew that.  Your goal here seems to be to make sure the lies get out, and the truth is dismissed.  How repugnant.

                  Nice chatting with you.  It is clear you lack the wit and wisdom to be of much interest though, what with the transparent attempts at misquoting - so a simple piss off and I am done with you.

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