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  •  McCain and creationism (1+ / 0-)
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    I'm not a big fan of John but I don't think he's inserting his feet in his mouth here.  I think creationism should be taught, just not in science class.  It could be taught in a philosophy or religious studies course (heck it could be taught in a course studying cultism).  I studied Asian religions in college and we were taught Jainism which is about as extreme as it gets in that area.  It was still taught.  Do I plan on going out and starving myself to death and covering my mouth so I don't accidentally swallow a bug or not moving lest I squash an ant?  Hell no.  Fuck those ants.  I hope to squash millions before I die.  If ID is taught with other religious beliefs it will only expose it for what it is, an extremist, fundamentalist belief system espoused by a radical sect of nutjobs.

    BTW I also agree with him on marxism/lenninism but not for the same reason.  He sees it as learning about your enemy whereas I see it as learning about what's out there so as to better understand what we have.  For all it's great points capitalism has alot of faults.  If we are ever to improve upon it we must know what our options are, all of them.  Limiting our knowledge will only limit our options.  

    The same applies to ID, if there is anything, ANYTHING that we can use in that belief system that will help us improve our lives and society as a whole then it is worth it teaching it in a religious study or philosophy course, just not in a science course.  Science and religion should never be taught together or where one has an influence over another, otherwise we'll be checking the floatability of people and burning them at the stake as witches if they don't drown.

    I also think the blog completely overanalyzed what McCain said.  I don't think we'd be human if we were to look at some of the true wonders of nature with absolute awe.  He believes in God and so his awe is focused in that direction whereas mine might be focused elsewhere.  I doubt that means he wants everyone to be forced to be taught ID.  

    Also, because he believes that maybe ID should be taught but not in religion courses, he's in bed with the creationists but backtracking to appear as courageous and a free thinker?  Why does everything have to be black and white?  I guess I'm in bed with a  creationist too and all along I thought I was in bed with a hispanic woman.

    He was expressing his opinion on ID.  For someone to then bash him for that opinion because he follows it up by stating that his opinion basically means jack shit and that the decisions should be in the hands of the local boards is not fair.  I would expect nothing else from a true republican than to say 'leave it to the locals'.

    Sorry, but as much as I'd like to expose McCain as a fraud and rake him over the coals I think I'm gonna need more evidence before saying McCain has inserted his two feet in his mouth on ID.

    -8.50, -7.59 This is your world. These are your people. You can live for yourself today, or help build tomorrow for everyone.

    by DisNoir36 on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 05:09:29 AM PDT

    •  well said (0+ / 0-)

      And here is part of the McCain quote, since most won't follow the link

      “Shhh, you shouldn't tell them,” he said, mimicking those who would shield children from the fact that some people believe in intelligent design. The former prisoner of war said he also disagreed with Cold War-era efforts to prevent Marxist-Leninism from being taught in schools, saying it was better for Americans to understand their enemy. He noted that he didn't say that intelligent design needed to be taught in “science class,” leaving unclear exactly what class he thought it should be taught in. He said he believed local school boards, not the federal government, should determine curricula.

      “From a personal standpoint, I believe in evolution,” Mr. McCain said. At the same time, he said, “When I stand on the rim of the Grand Canyon and I see the sun going down, I believe the hand of God was there.”  

    •  What would be taught? (0+ / 0-)

      How could you spend a whole class saying and God did this and God did that? How complicated is that and how long would it take to say it? A whole semester? How complicated is it to teach someone that there is a belief that God is responsible for creation? I don't get what the class would spend its time doing.

      •  It's called 'comparative religion' (1+ / 0-)
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        You may remember something with that name.  The class spends its time looking also into other religions' beliefs about creation and a lot of other things--more than enough to occupy years, much less a semester.

        "It has been said of chess that life is not long enough for it, but that is the fault of life, not of chess."
        A fan of fur

        by Ernest Tomlinson on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 06:05:33 AM PDT

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        •  I haven't heard (0+ / 0-)

          a word about the Rig Veda out of anyone. Shades of Feyerabend? I really haven't gotten that impresssion... who would they include? The ant people of the Hopi's? The Snake Twinns of Haiti? Feyerabend would be thrilled! But all the creationism people talk about that I've heard has definitely been slanted towards monotheism. But if they are going to include everybody's creation myths, then well, yes that would take years! We would have some savvy kids when it comes to world religion.

          •  I've heard a few words about the Rig Veda (0+ / 0-)

            It was in a freshman-level class in Mythology at SDSU that I admit I took for GE credit (although the professor was also one of my Classics professors so of course I was going to take it.)  The subject is huge so ideas about creation were given only a couple of weeks of class time.  Still I could imagine its being done that way.

            "It has been said of chess that life is not long enough for it, but that is the fault of life, not of chess."
            A fan of fur

            by Ernest Tomlinson on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 06:22:26 AM PDT

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            •  I don't (0+ / 0-)

              think the creationists are interested in teaching kids comparative religion.

              •  Of course not (0+ / 0-)

                they're only interested in brainwashing our youth.

                I say we give them what they want.  We teach every kid creationism, along with all the other hundreds of religions (thousands).

                Not to show everyone how much of a geek I am but I used to watch Babylon 5 religiously (pun intended).  There was one episode where the different alien races all had religious festivals of their homeworld's dominant religion.  However, when it came to us, the captain couldn't decide so what he did to introduce the other alien races to our religion was to line up a representative of every religious belief on Earth and have the aliens go down the line and learn on their own.  The line went on forever.

                Give the creationists what they want.  In the end we'll see how their beliefs stack up when compared to others.  We all know it won't, including the leaders of this creationist movement, which is why they only want their belief system taught.

                -8.50, -7.59 This is your world. These are your people. You can live for yourself today, or help build tomorrow for everyone.

                by DisNoir36 on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 07:00:05 AM PDT

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